Mr. JARMAN. After we had ran down to this last window on the west side of the building, and we was discussing it. And then after I got to thinking about all the debris on Bonnie Ray's head, and I thought about that, also. And so I told Hank, I say, "That shot probably did come from upstairs, up over us," and Hank said, "I know it did, because I could hear the action of the bolt, and I could hear the cartridges drop on the floor." And I told him there we better get the hell from up here. The CHAIRMAN. Now, tell me, when you went downstairs--when you were downstairs and went out the first time, that is, just before you met Brennan, did anyone stop you as you went out the building? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. You could have gone right away if you wanted to, could you? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And then you happened to run across Brennan, and had this conversation with him? Mr. JARMAN. No. He ran up to the police officer and was telling him about the man sticking a gun out the window. And I heard him telling the officer that. And I told him that I thought the shots came from inside, too. The CHAIRMAN. I see. Are you a married man? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a family? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir; three children. The CHAIRMAN. I think that is all. Thank you very much for coming and helping us out. We appreciate it very much. Mr. JARMAN. We are glad to do it. Mr. BALL. Mr. Chairman, we would like to recall Mr. Brennan. TESTIMONY OF HOWARD LESLIE BRENNAN RESUMED Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, you are the same Howard Leslie Brennan who testifled this morning here? Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Do you know a George Murray, of the National Broadcasting Co.? Mr. BRENNAN. I do not. Mr. BELIN. Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co.---- Mr. McCLOY. You are still under oath, you realize. Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co. in Dallas? Mr. BRENNAN. I have not. Mr. BELIN. Did you ever state to anyone that you heard shots from opposite the Texas School Book Depository and saw smoke and paper wadding come out of boxes on a slope below the railroad trestle at the time of the assassination? Did you ever say that or that, in substance, to anyone? Mr. BRENNAN. I did not. Mr. BELIN. That is all. Mr. BRENNAN. Is there another Howard Brennan? Mr. BELIN. Well, sir; we don't know. We wanted to know whether or not you ever made this statement to anyone. Mr. BRENNAN. No, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Mr. Brennan. Mr. BRENNAN. I would like to ask a question off the record. The CHAIRMAN. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) TESTIMONY OF ROY SANSOM TRULY Mr. BELIN. Next we will call Mr. Truly. Mr. McCLOY. Will you raise your right hand, and stand? Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. TRULY. I do.