Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; from reading the surgeon's report and also from talking to Dr. Gregory and Dr. Shaw. Mr. SPECTER. Did you have access to the medical reports of Parkland Hospital concerning the wounds of Governor Connally in all respects? Dr. OLIVIER. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. And did you have occasion to discuss those wounds in great detail with Dr. Shaw and Dr. Gregory when they were present in Washington, D.C. on April 21, 1964, preparatory to their testifying before this Commission? Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; I did. Mr. SPECTER. What was the nature of the wound on Governor Connally's back? Dr. OLIVIER. The surgeon's report described it as about 3 centimeters long, its longest dimension, and it is hard for me to remember reading it or discussing it with him but I did both. Apparently it was a jagged wound. He said a wound like this consists of two things, usually a defect in the epidermis and a central hole which is small, and he could put his finger in it so it was a fairly large wound. Mr. SPECTER. What was the path of the bullet in a general way, based on the information provided to you concerning Governor Connally's wound in the back? Dr. OLIVIER. Apparently it passed along the rib. I don't recall which rib it was but passed the fifth rib, passed along this rib causing a fracture that I believe removed about 10 centimeters of the rib through fragments through the pleura, lacerating the lung. I asked Dr. Shaw directly whether he thought the bullet had gone through the pleural cavity and he said he didn't believe that it had, that the damage was done by the rib fragments. Then the bullet exited as described somewhat below the right nipple. Mr. SPECTER. Did you perform a test on goat substance to endeavor to measure the reduction in velocity of a missile similar to the one which passed through Governor Connally? Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; I did. Mr. SPECTER. Why was goat substance selected for that purpose in the testing procedure? Dr. OLIVIER. We usually use this in our work so we are familiar with it. I am not saying it is the only substance that could be used, but we were not using any unknown procedures or any procedures that we hadn't used already. Mr. SPECTER. Does it closely simulate the nature of a wound in the human body? Dr. OLIVIER. In this particular instance it did. Mr. SPECTER. Was the wound inflicted on the goat, then, subjected to X-ray analysis for the purpose of determining the precise nature of the wound and for comparison purposes with that wound---- Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; it was. Mr. SPECTER. Inflicted on Connally? Dr. OLIVIER. Yes; it was. Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you an X-ray marked Commission Exhibit 851 and ask you to state what that shows? Dr. OLIVIER. It shows a fractured rib. From this you wouldn't be able to--well, if you were a better radiologist than I was, you might be able to tell which one, but it was the eighth left rib. It shows a comminuted fracture extending some distance along the rib.