Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; well, there was a partition here. A partition here [indicating], and there was about, oh, I guess about four rows down from me. Mr. BALL. All right. In other words, the officer hadn't reached you yet, when he asked Oswald to stand up? Mr. APPLIN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. You stood up and went toward the rear of the theatre, did you? Mr. APPLIN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And going to ask the officer what was going on? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Then, you were about four rows away from where Oswald was---- Mr. APPLIN. Apprehended. Mr. BALL. And did you hear the officer, what he said? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; heard mainly what both of them said. Mr. BALL. What did the officer say? Mr. APPLIN. The officer said, "Will you stand up, please." Mr. BALL. What did the man say? Mr. APPLIN. Well, he just stood up. Mr. BALL. Did he say anything? Mr. APPLIN. No, sir; I didn't hear him say anything at that time. Mr. BALL. And what happened then? Mr. APPLIN. Well, when he stood up, the officer stepped over to search him down. The officer, Oswald, or the man, took a swing at him. When he did, the officer grabbed him. Mr. BALL. Took a swing at him with his fist? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; he did. Mr. BALL. With his left or right? Mr. APPLIN. Right fist. Mr. BALL. Took a swing at him and what happened then? Mr. APPLIN. Well, the officer, I heard him say, "Here he is." And during the proceeding of that, I guess about 5 or 10 seconds later, there was another--I think it was two officers, or one, passed me and ran down there to him. Mr. BALL. Did you see a gun? Mr. APPLIN. Well, the gun didn't come into view until after about four or five officers were there. Mr. BALL. Then did you see a gun? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; but only--there was one gun. The pistol. It came into view before any of the other officers got there. Mr. BALL. That is what I mean. What do you say happened about that? Who pulled a gun? Mr. APPLIN. Well, anyhow, the officer was facing this way [indicating] and Oswald was facing this way [indicating]. And then the gun was pointed out that way [indicating]. Mr. BALL. Wait a minute. I can't follow you when you say it was "this way," and "this way," sir. You told me that this officer asked Oswald to stand up? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did he stand up? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; he did. Mr. BALL. Then did he put his hand some place on Oswald? Mr. APPLIN. Yes, sir; along about---- Mr. BALL. Where? Mr. APPLIN. I guess about his hips. Mr. BALL. Then what did Oswald do? Mr. APPLIN. He took a right-hand swing at him. Mr. BALL. What did the officer do? Mr. APPLIN. The officer grabbed him then. Mr. BALL. Had you seen the pistol up to that time? Mr. APPLIN. No, sir; there was not one in view then. Mr. BALL. How soon after that did you see the pistol? Mr. APPLIN. I guess it was about--I guess it was about 2 or 3 seconds. Mr. BALL. Who pulled the pistol?