Mr. BELIN. That Captain Fritz told you that back on November 22, he had told you to get the hulls and bring them down? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. And you also discussed this with Detective Boyd either on April 6 or 7? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. You are nodding your head yes? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, after they told you this, what is the fact as to whether you then do or do not independently remember actually putting these shells in an envelope? Mr. SIMS. I do, yes, sir; I remember putting them in an envelope. Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not you now independently remember putting that envelope in your pocket? Mr. SIMS. I do, yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Did Captain Fritz tell you that he saw you put them in your pocket? Mr. SIMS. No; he didn't say anything about the envelope or pocket. I remember he told me to be sure and get the hulls. Mr. BELIN. What about Boyd, did he say anything about an envelope? Or pocket? Mr. SIMS. I don't believe he did, no, sir. Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what color envelope it was? Mr. SIMS. I believe it was a brown, something brown envelope. Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to a brown manilla envelope on top of the desk here? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how big an envelope it was? Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't. We have two different sizes, and I don't remember what size. Mr. BELIN. Do you remember from whom you got the envelope? Mr. SIMS. Lieutenant Day had it. When he goes to a scene, he has envelopes. Mr. BELIN. Did Lieutenant Day or anyone else see you put that envelope in your pocket? Mr. SIMS. I don't know if he saw me put the envelope in my pocket, but he was there when I took possession of the hulls. Mr. BELIN. He was? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; I am not sure, I don't know if the other crime lab officer was present or not. That would be Studebaker, I believe. Mr. BELIN. Where were these hulls when you last saw them, or saw the envelope in which they were? Mr. SIMS. In Captain Fritz' office, I believe. Mr. BELIN. Were they just laying on his desk, or in his physical possession? Mr. SIMS. In this envelope. Mr. BELIN. Was the envelope on his desk? Mr. SIMS. I don't remember if I actually gave them to him or put them there on the desk in front of him. Mr. BELIN. But he was there when you left there? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. And that is the last time you saw them? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. Do you remember whether or not you ever initialed the hulls? Mr. SIMS. I don't know if I initialed the hulls or not. Mr. BELIN. If you would have initialed the hulls, what initials would you have used? Mr. SIMS. As a rule, RMS. Mr. BELIN. RMS? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; but I believe I initialed the hulls or the envelope that I put them in. Mr. BELIN. Would you have initialed the outside or the inside of the hull? By that, do you understand what I mean?