Mrs. GRAVITIS. I didn't have time to talk. It is my personal opinion, if he is just an average man in Russia, he wouldn't have any chance to have a gun or rifle or shotgun in Russia. Mr. BELIN. What about to become a member of a hunting club or go hunting? Mrs. GRAVITIS. This is so in America. There is no such thing as hunting clubs over there. Mr. BELIN. You know of no such hunting clubs over there? Mrs. GRAVITIS. Of course there are trappers, but either they are professional trappers or they are members of the communistic party. Otherwise, you have to have permission to have a firearm. Mr. BELIN. You have to be a member of the Communist Party to belong to a hunting club? Mrs. GRAVITIS. I don't know. Mr. BELIN. Did Marina Oswald say anything about ever going for walks to discuss things so they wouldn't be overheard when they were in Russia? Mrs. GRAVITIS. No. Mr. BELIN. When you say that the living accommodations were better because Lee Harvey Oswald was an American, what do you mean they were better? In what way would they be better than the average person there? Mrs. GRAVITIS. The room was larger, cleaner, and probably in a better area of the city. I think, because he would write to his relatives, that he certainly would say that he had better accommodations. Mr. BELIN. What did Marina Oswald say about how she liked the United States? Mrs. GRAVITIS. She liked the United States and she also said that she was watching TV that particular day when they talked, and she saw our President being in the crowd and shaking hands with people. It was unbelievable. She said it is unbelievable such a freedom. Mr. BELIN. Did she say anything about whether she belonged to a church? Mrs. GRAVITIS. In Russia or in the United States? Mr. BELIN. Here in the States. Mrs. GRAVITIS. She didn't say that she belonged to a church, but she did say that she christened her daughter or she had christened her daughter. Mr. BELIN. And what church? Mrs. GRAVITIS. The Greek Orthodox. It is called Eastern Orthodox. Mr. BELIN. Here in Dallas? Mrs. GRAVITIS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. Was there anything else in this first conversation that you had with her that she said about her husband? Mrs. GRAVITIS. First of all, what struck me was that she said it is below his dignity to take any kind of work. That surprised me very much. That is my personal interpretation. Mr. BELIN. My question is this. Is there anything else that Marina Oswald said about her husband? Mrs. GRAVITIS. No. Mr. BELIN. Now did you have any other telephone conversations with Marina Oswald? Mrs. GRAVITIS. Two times. Mr. BELIN. Two more? Mrs. GRAVITIS. Twice in total. Mr. BELIN. Two conversations in total? Mrs. GRAVITIS. That's correct. Mr. BELIN. Now, the first one you said was in May of 1963? Mrs. GRAVITIS. That's right. Mr. BELIN. When was the second one? Mrs. GRAVITIS. Approximately maybe 2 or 3 weeks. I don't remember exactly when Mrs. Paine came back from San Antonio.