Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see--I don't trust them in any kind of a condition or any kind of a statement that they make. It doesn't make any difference, but in fact, I know it isn't truthful--it's just like Mr. Gromyko lying to President Kennedy sitting in his office, you know, lying just like a trooper and then knowing that it wasn't so, but he lied. I don't have to tell you all about what Communists do and how they operate. Mr. JENNER. Did there in due course come into this community a man by the name of George De Mohrenschildt? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. And you were here when he came here, were you? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, let's say that I met George De Mohrenschildt in Dallas while I was coming here, just--you know--just occasionally to see my friends, probably about, I'll say 15 or 17 years ago, somewhere in that neighborhood. Mr. JENNER. Had you heard of him prior to that time? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I heard of him through Jake Hamon. Mr. JENNER. Through Mr. Hamon? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Hamon, H-a-m-o-n [spelling]--Jake. Mr. JENNER. Who is he? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He is an oilman friend of mine here, quite well known, and he told me there was a Russian here--do I know him, and I said, "No; I hadn't heard about him." That's how I met him--at a party. Mr. JENNER. You are talking about George De Mohrenschildt? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. Mr. JENNER. In this 17-year period from that initial acquaintance to the present time, had you come to know George De Mohrenschildt and acquire some knowledge of his origin and background? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I believe so. Mr. JENNER. Would you please recite it to us--who is he, what is his history, his marriages, the nativity of the ladies he married and some of his activities, leaving until a little bit later in the questioning the business associations or contacts you may have had with him? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, from what I understand, George De Mohrenschildt comes from what we call by-the-Baltic Germans. Mr. JENNER. What is--by-the-Baltic Germans? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The by-the-Baltic Germans are Germans that lived by the Baltic Sea and they were Russians or rather, Russiafied Germans and they were in the service of the Czar for generations and generations and were considered Russians. Most of them were barons, you know, and I don't know whether George's family were or not, but the "de" Mohrenschildt signifies that his family had a title. Mr. JENNER. That's the "de"? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The "de"--yes; it signifies that. Now, I understand that he has a friend or his brother is teaching, I believe, at the University of Chicago. Mr. JENNER. Is that the University of Chicago or Dartmouth? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Or what? Mr. JENNER. Dartmouth, or the University of Chicago? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It might be, now, but at that time when I first learned it--he was at the University of Chicago. Mr. JENNER. And his first name? Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember. Mr. JENNER. What did you say his first name was?