For example, the characteristics of photographic paper, the characteristics of chemicals that we use, and it is only after learning and becoming familiar with the equipment and the materials that then you find out whether an employee will produce the work properly, on time, and well, and so, it is usually some time before an employee develops into or either becomes the kind of employee you want. In other words, after this training period, and you have spent time with him teaching him the equipment and the material, perhaps at this late date, many months by now may have gone by--perhaps he can't--he isn't careful enough in the job--he begins producing, but perhaps we will say he doesn't work as hard as you would like, so quite often we spend a great deal of time teaching someone, only to find out after some months have passed that he isn't a desirable employee, but is just one of those things. We must, of course, in order to find out if they will do the job, go through the process of teaching him the equipment and about the materials, so I've gone into this because it will help later on in explaining the termination of Lee Oswald with us, but because of these various facts that I have mentioned, I became familiar with one person in particular down at the employment office, the Texas Employment Commission--the agency. I, of course, had never met this person, but through phone conversations I explained after many times what I needed, the type person I was looking for--perhaps with an artistic background, perhaps with photographic experience somewhere, in the Army or elsewhere, and I told her the various attributes that I thought a person should have in order to make a success of our work. Mr. JENNER. Would you try to reconstruct this now--just assume you are on the telephone now. Mr. GRAEF. Okay. Mr. JENNER. And carry yourself back out there to a year and a half ago? Mr. GRAEF. Yes; I'll try to do that. So, I called this person repeatedly--after the first call or two--this has gone on now over several years and she knew the type person I was looking for and the type of experience that I was looking for, so I called her, and her name was Louise Latham. Mr. JENNER. Is she still employed by the Texas Employment Agency, do you know? Mr. GRAEF. I don't know--I really don't know--a very charming person over the phone. Mr. JENNER. And, had you put in this call, let's say--how long before she sent, if she did, Lee Harvey Oswald over to see you--when did you start out to seek this employee, is what I am getting at? Mr. GRAEF. Let me refer to this employee questionnaire. Mr. JENNER. Does that have an exhibit number on it? Mr. GRAEF. Yes, No. 427. Mr. JENNER. Commission Exhibit No. 427. Mr. GRAEF. Now, it says here he was employed October 12, 1962, so I would say probably 2 weeks prior to that time, roughly about the 1st of October was when I placed the call.