In about October 1962, as director of our photographic department we found ourselves in need of another man, so at this time I called the Texas Employment Commission and spoke to them about sending me someone having as close as possible the abilities that might work out in our photographic department. Mr. JENNER. Would you tell us what you told her in that connection, as best as you can reconstruct it, giving us her name--it was a her? Mr. GRAEF. I believe I remember--yes--Louise Latham. Mr. JENNER. What your normal practice is in that respect? Mr. GRAEF. Yes. Mr. JENNER. And, particularly what you did on this occasion? Mr. GRAEF. Being the director of the photographic department for some time, on numerous occasions it has been necessary for me to call and ask the Texas Employment and other sources for help in the normal turnover of employees that come up in any business. Mr. JENNER. Could you tell me something about those normal sources, because we may wish to look to them and see if we can find anybody else who had any possible contact with this man? Mr. GRAEF. Surely. I can't name other employment agencies, but I will say, private employment agencies who occasionally have called us and told us that they had someone they thought had ability along our line, but this hadn't been as successful to us as the Texas Employment Commission. They seem to have a bigger repertoire of personnel needing jobs. Mr. JENNER. Is that a public agency? Mr. GRAEF. Yes; it is. Mr. JENNER. State or local? Mr. GRAEF. State; it is a State agency. Mr. JENNER. It is here in Dallas? Mr. GRAEF. It is here in Dallas. Mr. JENNER. The office you called? Mr. GRAEF. The office I called--that's correct. Mr. JENNER. I assume it has offices in other cities in Texas? Mr. GRAEF. I believe so; so I called--but to reiterate--mainly our best source of employees has been the Texas Employment Commission. They have a larger pool to draw from, so I called--in the course of my dealing with them--they have various departments and in the course of dealing with them, I became familiar with one person. Our particular photographic department is not one that we find experienced personnel readily, and the work we do is, I would say, quite different in various ways from ordinary photography, as most people know it. I will enlarge on that slightly by saying we do many, many things with letters. For example, we can take a straight line of type and we can curve it or bend it or twist it or put it in a circle, for example, and so, rather than just taking pictures of people as ordinary photographers do, this work which we perform for advertising agencies and artists in this area is a matter of training, learning first to use the equipment we have which takes some time, and then the differences in the material that we use.