Mr. GRAEF. His record, as all this has brought out was--adding up to where he was not a desirable employee. His relationships with other employees had reached the point where no one that I know of was really friendly or liked him. His work as we progressed into the more intricate details of our production, didn't improve and it began to be evident after all the training that we had given up to this point that now that he was in a position where he should be able to produce jobs, actually he was not able to do so, and after a reasonable---- Mr. JENNER. Was there ever any thought in your mind as to his ability ultimately to be able to do so? Mr. GRAEF. Yes; I reached the opinion that he would not have--he would never be the kind of an employee that I was looking for, giving him every chance, you can make a mistake on one job or two jobs, and you always feel like you must--"Let's try it one more time," and this was my thought, because after all, there had been several months passed where we had brought him up to this point and I feel we gave him every chance or tried to give him every chance to make a success, and still he was falling down and making these mistakes--sizing errors--and camerawork. When he had to make these things over, he would be mad at himself. He would go back and shoot it again, but it is obvious that he was taking twice as long when these things happened to produce one job because he was having to do the whole thing over again to get it right, that it couldn't be tolerated for much longer. About this time, I think it was in April, we had a fluctuation in business--it dropped and I thought, "Well, this is the time to let Lee Harvey Oswald--to let him go," so I called him back into the darkroom one day and I said, "Lee, business is"---- Mr. JENNER. When you say this conversation took place in the darkroom, was the room dark? Mr. GRAEF. There were dim red lights. Mr. JENNER. Why did you call him back in the darkroom rather than some other place? Mr. GRAEF. At the time it was the--I didn't want to embarrass the boy. Mr. JENNER. This was a private talk? Mr. GRAEF. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Out of the presence of anyone other than yourself and Oswald? Mr. GRAEF. Out of the presence of anyone else--yes. Mr. JENNER. And that was one of the reasons for your calling him back there? Mr. GRAEF. Yes. I don't have a private office. My desk is with the other people in the production of work, and I don't have any private facilities where I can talk to someone, and back in the corner of the darkroom, it is illuminated by red lights. Mr. JENNER. Are these infrared lights? Is that what you mean?