Mr. JENNER. Exactly the same. Would you please state for me your concept of the degree of marksmanship for (a) marksman, (b) sharpshooter, (c) expert? Mr. THORNLEY. Well, a marksman is an average shooter. A man, I think, could pick up a rifle and with a little commonsense and a minimum knowledge of the basics of marksmanship qualify as a marksman. When a man doesn't qualify as a marksman it is usually either because he is nervous on the day of qualification or he is gun shy or some outside influence confuses him; maybe he gets his windage off, something like this. Sharpshooter is just a little above average. It ranges over about--a pretty wide field. But it is a man who--a sharpshooter would be a man, the average man, with a good, maybe a week of training on how to use a rifle, and some practice. Whereas an expert is the kind of man I would hate to have on the other side in a war. He is accurate with his rifle up to and including 500 yards in a number of different positions. Hits the bull's-eye or close to the bull's-eye an overwhelming percentage of the time. Mr. JENNER. Is that the category in which we would place that to which we refer generally as the sniper? Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Well, any man might be assigned as a sniper, I imagine. But an expert rifleman would perform much better. Mr. JENNER. Maybe be a superior sniper. Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Definitely. Mr. JENNER. And to attain the position of expert marksman must there be considerable practice and use of the weapon or is it more of natural ability? Mr. THORNLEY. Now, you enter in once again to natural ability, just as not qualifying might be caused by a lack of natural ability of some kind. An expert rifleman probably would have a much calmer nervous system or, you might say, a much greater degree of control. I would imagine training can make up for this. I know a couple of times I just missed expert by a few points. It seemed that I couldn't make expert. It seemed to me there was just something I didn't have in order to make expert. It was very frustrating. Mr. JENNER. You tried? Mr. THORNLEY. Yes; it takes a great degree of control, primarily. Of course, the other things like good eyesight and so on and so forth. Mr. JENNER. Oh, yes. Mr. THORNLEY. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Did you ever discuss with Oswald his degree of proficiency in the use of the rifle? Mr. THORNLEY. Not to the best of my knowledge. Mr. JENNER. Did you have any impressions that you gathered in that respect while you were with him at El Toro? Mr. THORNLEY. None whatsoever. Had somebody asked me to guess about Oswald, I would have said, well, he probably didn't qualify, just because that was the type of guy he was, but that is all. Mr. JENNER. You would never have expected him to have been a sharpshooter, for example?