Mr. PIC. At about the same time that Lee was enrolled in school that we had the big trouble. It seems that there was an argument about the TV set one day, and--between my wife and my mother. It seems that according to my wife's statement that my mother antagonized Lee, being very hostile toward my wife and he pulled out a pocketknife and said that if she made any attempt to do anything about it that he would use it on her, at the same time Lee struck his mother. This perturbed my wife to no end. So, I came home that night, and the facts were related to me. Mr. JENNER. When the facts were related to you was your mother present, Lee present, your wife present? If not, who was present? Mr. PIC. I think my wife told me this in private, sir. I went and asked my mother about it. Mr. JENNER. Your mother was home? Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; she was home. Mr. JENNER. You went and spoke with your mother? Mr. PIC. Yes, sir. Mr. JENNER. Was Lee present when you spoke to your mother? Mr. PIC. No, sir. Mr. JENNER. What did you say to your mother and what did she say to you? Mr. PIC. I asked her about the incident and she attempted to brush it off as not being as serious as my wife put it. That Lee did not pull a pocketknife on her. That they just had a little argument about what TV channel they were going to watch. Being as prejudiced as I am I rather believed my wife rather than my mother. Mr. JENNER. Did you speak to Lee about the incident? Mr. PIC. I am getting to that, sir. So I approached Lee on this subject, and about the first couple of words out of my wife he became real hostile toward me, and let me get my notes on it. When this happened it perturbed my wife so much that she told them they are going to leave whether they liked it or not, and I think Lee had the hostility toward my wife right then and there, when they were getting thrown out of the house as they put it. When I attempted to talk to Lee about this, he ignored me, and I was never able to get to the kid again after that. He didn't care to hear anything I had to say to him. So in a matter of a few days they packed up and left, sir. They moved to the Bronx somewhere. Mr. JENNER. Did you see them from time to time thereafter? Mr. PIC. Yes, I can continue if you wish. Unless you want to stop there and ask me something about it. Mr. JENNER. Well, at this point, yes, I would like to ask you this: You hadn't seen them from October of 1950 until the summer of 1952. Did you notice any change in him, his overall attitude, his relations with his mother, his demeanor, his feelings towards others, his actions toward others? Mr. PIC. He was definitely the boss. Mr. JENNER. Now, tell us on what you base that?