When the armored car arrived they did back it into the Commerce Street side, and the driver left it up near the front of the ramp because of its weight, rather than height. Although, due to its height, it couldn't have backed much farther down the ramp, but he was afraid that due to the weight of the car the--it wouldn't pull it out. The engine wouldn't have enough power to pull it out of the ramp, and so it was left in that position until after Lieutenant Pierce pulled the plain car that was his normal assignment car, I think equipment 239, although, that is irrelevant, attempted to pull it up the ramp. He couldn't get through the news media, which I would like to add to a little later. I previously had the news media in the jail office. Now, during one of my inspection trips I inspected the first floor of the Police and Courts Building from the doors for Harwood and Main Street to see that there was no congestion, and also, to look the crowds over on Commerce, and during one of my trips, or perhaps I was contacting the dispatcher--I was still conducting my regular patrol duties--the news media was moving from the jail office to the ramps to clear the jail office of them. Mr. HUBERT. Did you supervise that movement? Captain TALBERT. No, sir; Chief Batchelor arrived and was told of the preparation that had been made in the basement, and I assumed looked at the office. I wasn't present, but I assume he looked in the office and asked that that news media be removed. He was talking to Sergeant Putnam and Sergeant Dean. I wasn't present, nor was Lieutenant Pierce there. Mr. HUBERT. So, the news media were moved out of the jail area and where did they then go? Captain TALBERT. I was told--and this by Sergeant Putnam--that they were first placed on each side of the ramp leading from Main and Commerce, and after the chief observed the conflict there, he had those on the Harwood Street side of the ramp moved across the ramp onto the Main Street side to keep--to make more room for vehicular traffic, and that, of course, was from Sergeant Putnam to me. I don't know what instigated---- Mr. HUBERT. Well, did you have occasion to observe the news media in the ramp and parking areas just prior to the shooting of Oswald? Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, I think I should like to have you describe that, and in order to facilitate that, I am going to draw a general oblong figure which I am marking "Area A," and I'm going to draw another general oblong figure which I am marking "Area B," and I would like you to tell us for the record---- Captain TALBERT. May I inject another---- Mr. HUBERT. Well, then, I will mark another oblong area, which I will call Area C. Captain TALBERT. All right, sir. Mr. HUBERT. I would like you to describe that for the record--that is, what were the conditions of those areas particularly with reference to congestion of people?