Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Lowery was there, and there was some officers from the homicide bureau there, and Captain Fritz was in his office, and I think there was a Secret Service man there with him. I don't know what his name was. I was told it was a Secret Service man. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know L. D. Montgomery? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. You mean the detective? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether he was there? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I don't recall whether he was or not. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Blackie Harrison there when you arrived? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I think he was there in the office. I believe he was in there, and there was Lieutenant Wallace. I just don't remember who else was there. I know the place was full. Mr. GRIFFIN. Who else was there? Let me ask you--I want to ask you here to speculate a little bit but at the same time to give me an honest opinion on this. You have had a chance to talk with many police officers, I presume, about all the events that took place, and you know of all the rumors that there have been about the man walking down the Main Street ramp and so forth and so on. Do you still feel--can you tell me whether or not you still have a belief that Jack Ruby might have been the man who pushed that camera in, in your own mind? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, in my own mind, I can tell you this: I did see the third man with the camera, and it struck me so strange that only two men--there were three men, but still only two were trying to push the camera, and that is the reason I went out and contacted the two men. Let me tell you, I did learn from Lieutenant Wallace--that is one of the investigators on the thing for the city--one of you might have talked with him--that you contacted the crews on this camera--and he did say that a man that was with these cameras over here that at about--see, there is a slight decline in this area right here where Lowery was. Mr. GRIFFIN. There was a decline where Lowery was standing? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. At the time that that camera was being pushed, a man came from this crew over here and helped them push it on down. If there is where I got the three men, but I do remember seeing three men on that camera. Mr. GRIFFIN. And, in other words, somebody came over to the two-man crew? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Off one of these cameras here. Channel 5 already had one camera down here, but they said--that is where I got the reason for this--they brought the wide angle lens and they wanted one of the telescopic lens to get a shot of him walking up the ramp to where the armored car was. But still I did see three men pushing that camera through here. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. GRIFFIN. Let's put this on the record. Now, as I understand the story that you heard was that a man came from the two TV cameras, from the channel 5 camera that was already stationed behind a railing? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. All right.