Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I knew that. I helped carry the man through the jail office doors to the jail office, and while I was there standing guard on the doors, someone said who is he, and a guy said it is Jack Ruby. And I was standing in the door when a doctor came in right after we got Ruby in there and they brought Oswald, and immediately thereafter, someone was banging on the door trying to get through, and I tried to push him out, and he said he was a doctor, and that he had been called. And I run my hand down his side and he had the stethoscope in his right hand coat pocket, and I let him through. Mr. GRIFFIN. So, by the time you ran to the TV cameras, you knew that Ruby was the man? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. I knew that Ruby was the man. They said he was Jack Ruby. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, if you had seen the third man after it reached, or as it reached Lowery, do you think you would have seen that man move from the TV cameras to the channel 5 camera that was stationed behind the railing? Do you think you would have seen him move from there to the position of the camera? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Well, let me put it this way: I didn't just watch this camera all the way through, because it done past this point, and the next time I saw it, I remember seeing it when I was looking through the square glass in the door when I was holding it to, and I saw the two men push it up here. So, I don't know whether I was looking at the camera at the time I was down here, but I didn't see anyone go around to the camera. Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that the TV camera came through the door, the double doors, you were looking through another glass? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No; now at the time it came through the door, this door was being opened from the inside. Mr. GRIFFIN. This single door that entered into the jail office opened inward toward the jail office, and it didn't obstruct your view? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No; they came through the swinging door. I was standing in the doorway and I held this door open. Mr. GRIFFIN. You held open the swinging doors for them? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Right; when they came through. Mr. GRIFFIN. You pulled it back toward yourself? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. They were already going past, and I grabbed ahold. Mr. GRIFFIN. So, the swinging doors were between you, your face and them? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No; I was standing at the edge of this swinging door holding it back for them. Mr. GRIFFIN. So, you were behind the swinging doors when you were holding the end of the swinging door, and you were off to the side? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. Right. Mr. GRIFFIN. And there was nothing on part of that door which was between you and them? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. How far away would you say you were from those men at that point? Mr. CUTCHSHAW. About 3 feet. Maybe 2, or I could have reached out and put my hand on one of them. Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you see the faces of those men?