Captain JONES. It will be just about that same thing that after I turned and looking back, and also someone running out to the street, out at the extreme edges of the crowd and all, and that is when I hollered, "Block the exits." Or "bar the exits," or "don't let anybody out." Or--I couldn't tell you the words I used. I shouted over my shoulder and took a few running steps and shouting to the officers, for some of them was running down towards the scene that I yelled, "Block the exits, don't let anybody out." The two or three officers stopped. I couldn't tell you who they are, and then I turned and went back down to the scene or near the scene of the shooting, somebody says, it was Jack Ruby. In fact, it was said more than once. I heard the words--and they got the man standing up. I can see his head and I do recognize in my mind that it is Jack Ruby, but--about to get him in the jail office, shouted to that officer that way, whether he heard me or not, I don't know, but this man here Lieutenant Swain [indicating] was having a lot of difficulty. He was standing between point "B" on the driveway and this circle, approximately. Standing near the television cameras, and having difficulty keeping the television men from getting down in the driveway. So I stopped there and I assisted him in keeping those people back for a few minutes until we can get it cleared up. We get that more or less under control. The people are not trying to force their way in there, and I go into the jail office and see Oswald lying on the floor with a bullet hole in the left side, upper rib cage, it appears to me. His shirt has been pulled up. Whether, at that time Ruby was still in the jail office or had started upstairs, he--it seems to me possibly he was getting on the elevator, but I can't say for sure. Mr. HUBERT. Did you speak to Ruby at that time? Captain JONES. I did not speak to Ruby. Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him? Captain JONES. There--if that was him getting on the elevator, or if he was in there. After that, no, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you have anything to do with the clearing of the basement area at an earlier time? Captain JONES. No, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever told as to what the original route would be from the police department to the county jail? Captain JONES. I was never told by some officer coming to me and saying, this is the route. As I said, I heard some of the higher ranking officers talking of a possible route, but I was on a long-distance phone call at a desk nearby. Mr. HUBERT. So, you can say to me now that you really did not know the planned route? Captain JONES. I was not told, and I do not know for sure what route they were going to take. I was aware of talk and some routing being planned. Mr. HUBERT. Can you tell us when you first heard that Ruby was supposed to have come down the Main Street ramp? Captain JONES. I don't remember; I don't understand that question, sir.