Mr. HUBERT. In return for which he pledged to you or gave you as security 500 shares of the stock of the corporation? Mr. PAUL. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. But I want to know what corporation was that; was that the Sovereign? Mr. PAUL. S. & R. Mr. HUBERT. And what year would that have been in? Mr. PAUL. In 1959 or 1960. Mr. HUBERT. Well, apparently you were not aware that there was a Sovereign, Inc.; a corporation called Sovereign, Inc.? Mr. PAUL. No; all I knew was that it was the S. & R. Mr. HUBERT. Then, when the place was changed to the Carousel, what happened to your 500 shares? Mr. PAUL. It’s still the same thing; Carousel is only a name. It’s still S. & R. Mr. HUBERT. Do you still have those shares? Mr. PAUL. No; I gave them over to his sister. Mr. HUBERT. When was that? Mr. PAUL. February 14. Mr. HUBERT. Of this year? Mr. PAUL. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. But you had held those shares, half of the ownership, as it were, of the Sovereign Club originally, and subsequently the Carousel, until recently? Mr. PAUL. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you get any income from the corporation? Mr. PAUL. No, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Did you get any kind of pay? Mr. PAUL. No, sir. Mr. HUBERT. Of any sort; Jack never paid you any money through the years at all? Mr. PAUL. He never paid me a dime. Mr. HUBERT. And I gather from that that he stands owing you now $1,200, which was left from the original debt, about $2,200 that you loaned him for which you got a security—500 shares of a corporation—and then another $1,650 that you loaned him in order to open up the Carousel? Mr. PAUL. Right. Mr. HUBERT. A total of about $5,050, and is it your thought that he still owes you that much money? Mr. PAUL. Well, what am I going to do? Mr. HUBERT. I just wanted to find out just what the picture was, as to that. He never paid you any dividends? Mr. PAUL. He never had any money to pay me dividends; he always used to work from his pocket. Mr. HUBERT. Did you go to the Carousel very much? Mr. PAUL. Yes, sir; once or twice a week. Mr. HUBERT. Did you usually go on Saturday nights? Mr. PAUL. Not every Saturday night; mostly Friday nights. Mr. HUBERT. There is some evidence that on those occasions that you went, there were some sort of payments made to you, Mr. Paul, and that’s what I want to find out, if there were any. I don’t know what the nature of them was; that’s why I’m asking you about it. If there were payments on a loan or payments because of your ownership of the Carousel. Mr. PAUL. Not that I know of; not that I know of. Mr. HUBERT. In other words, your statement to me is that Jack Ruby never paid you any money at all? Mr. PAUL. Yes; that’s right. Mr. HUBERT. Either in the way of repaying the loan or in the way of dividends? Or in the way of profits? Mr. PAUL. In the first place, until the last year that he was there, he was losing money. Mr. HUBERT. At the Carousel? Mr. PAUL. At the Carousel. Mr. HUBERT. Did it make some money in the last year?