Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever make a suggestion that the people, the news media in the basement just be removed altogether so that there would be nobody there? Captain FRITZ. I didn’t handle that. I had nothing to do with the arrangement in the basement. I did ask that they be moved out of our way, and I believe there was a number of officers down there to do that. I want to say this in fairness to the chief. As we started to leave, he told me that the people were moved across the street, and the other people were back of the railing, and I think he thought they were. I think someone must have changed his order down there. We first called down and they told us everything was all right. One of my officers called on the telephone, before we went down to the jail. I kept my officers back in the jail until I asked two officers outside the jail if the security was good, and they said it was all right. But when we walked out, they climbed over my car and we met the crowd and the officers coming forward. Mr. HUBERT. Was that before the shooting? Captain FRITZ. Almost simultaneous. We had already gotten out of the jail door when the shooting happened. We were only a few feet out into the basement. Mr. HUBERT. As I understand it then, after you came out of the jail door and walked down the corridor to the car, there was a general surge? Captain FRITZ. Yes. Mr. HUBERT. Six or five feet? Captain FRITZ. Probably as far as far as from here to that door. Mr. HUBERT. That was about 8 or 9 feet? Captain FRITZ. Well, I don’t think, any more than that, probably. We probably have the measurements. Mr. HUBERT. The fact is that as soon as you began to come out, the whole crowd surged forward? Captain FRITZ. I had turned toward my car to reach for the door to open the rear door, and I just told the two officers to put him right here in the rear of the car when I heard the shot. Mr. Dhority was sitting at the wheel. He was backing my car back, and he was being hindered in backing the car by people getting around and behind it--both officers and other people. And as I started to reach for the door, the shot was fired. Mr. HUBERT. As I understand it then, when you came down there, you met a condition which you had not anticipated in this sense. That it was your impression that although the news media would be down there, they would be back of that rail? Captain FRITZ. Had they been back there, everything would have been all right. Mr. HUBERT. It is your impression that there would be nobody on the jail side of the rail and nobody on the main ramp, Main Street ramp? Captain FRITZ. That is right; we thought we had clearance there. Mr. HUBERT. Now you say that when you came outside you caused Oswald and the two guards with him, Mr. Leavelle and Mr. Graves, to halt in the jail office and you went out and called out as to whether it was clear?