Mr. FLEMING. Not until the truck was backed into the spot where it was, where it stopped. I then got out of the passenger’s side, walked around the front, and went into the basement of the city hall. Mr. HUBERT. I think you said it was on that occasion that you noticed that it was impossible for you to go down between the truck and the Harwood Street side of the ramp wall? Mr. FLEMING. On the passenger’s side. Mr. HUBERT. Because there simply wasn’t enough space? Mr. FLEMING. That’s right. Mr. HUBERT. So you had to go around in front of the truck and down the driver’s side? Mr. FLEMING. That’s right. Mr. HUBERT. Who did you meet there? Mr. FLEMING. I don’t know who challenged me, but somebody in plain clothes asked me who I was, and I told him, and within a matter of seconds, Chief Batchelor and I met. I don’t know whether this gentleman took me to him, or he was there waiting for me. Mr. HUBERT. Well, before we go on from there, would you care to estimate the time of arrival in front of the building and before you started to back in? Mr. FLEMING. As I stated, I have no idea what the time was. It took us; it wouldn’t have taken us more than 5 minutes to get from the terminal to the city hall. Mr. HUBERT. You had no traffic problem? Mr. FLEMING. No traffic problems at all. Mr. HUBERT. Goin and Dietrich were in the other car? Mr. FLEMING. That’s right. Mr. HUBERT. Where did they park? Mr. FLEMING. They parked initially on the south side of Commerce Street facing east diagonally from the entrance, diagonally to the left from the entrance. Mr. HUBERT. What did you do between the time that you first arrived until the firing of the shot? Perhaps I should ask you first, did you hear the shot? Mr. FLEMING. Yes; I heard the shot. Mr. HUBERT. Then from the time you arrived until you heard the shot, would you tell us what you did? Mr. FLEMING. After I met Chief Batchelor, we both got into the back end of the truck, and Chief lifted the mattresses from the bunks and inspected the rear and asked about a mechanism we had there which was a hydrovac brake, and I explained to him that was a brake for the back end so that the men from the rear could control the brake system of the car in the event of a holdup, and he commented, “We don’t want him to sit over here, and we will put him on the other side.” I had the keys and I couldn’t unlock the door to what we call the money compartment or the center compartment of the truck. I have been speaking previously of the rear compartment where the men stay.