Mr. PALMER. Yes; I believe, to the best of my knowledge, he was. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall in November of 1963 that Jack was attempting to persuade AGVA to terminate the amateur shows at the Weinstein club? Mr. PALMER. Oh, yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us about what he did? Mr. PALMER. He called Irving Mazzie on several occasions, and without my receiving any confirmation either from Irving or from New York as to what these conversations embodied, he instructed me that he was right, Jack Ruby, and I agreed. However, I had a request to have the other clubs shut down because of their noncompliance disregarded by New York. So it became my policy, and probably the reason for my termination with AGVA was that one or the other of the officers either the west coast or the east coast, would have to come in and straighten this out. Mr. GRIFFIN. You were getting conflicting orders, I take it? Mr. PALMER. Yes; I was. My New York office and my regional office were giving me conflicting orders. Mr. GRIFFIN. Irving Mazzie, I remember, was telling you to shut them down; is that right? Mr. PALMER. He did not at first. The New York office told me to shut them down, and Irving Mazzie said give them time. And there was this banter back and forth on the west coast. They had, I think, the Pink Pussy Cat and the Body Shop, were continuing their amateur nights and Irving said to permit the clubs here to continue until they ceased on the west coast. Eventually they ceased on the west coast, but there was still this complete uncertainty, in my mind, about here, because he continued to permit me to permit them to have their amateur nights. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any information that the Weinsteins were talking to Mr. Mazzie or Mr. Faye? Mr. PALMER. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. So that while Jack Ruby was trying to persuade AGVA to shut the Weinsteins down as far as amateur night was concerned, the Weinsteins were talking to other people? Mr. PALMER. Yes. As a matter of fact, perhaps it is my suggestion in fact, I forwarded a letter from Barney Weinstein to, I believe it was, Bobby Faye at that time. Yes, it was--concerning his part in the establishment of the amateur nights and that it was definitely a necessary thing for him to remain in business. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember that on or about the 13th of November of 1963 after Ruby had contacted Bobby Faye, you sent out a letter to people in your district advising them that amateur nights were not permitted? Mr. PALMER. That is correct. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after that letter was sent out, what did the Weinsteins do? Mr. PALMER. I think Abe Weinstein suspended the thing, the amateur nights for 2 weeks. I am not sure. I know that Jack was subscribing wholeheartedly to the memo. And Barney indicated that he was going to relinquish his affiliation with AGVA.