26. But others of them approaching the heresy of the Noetians think in like manner concerning the wenches and Montanus, but blaspheme the Father of the universals saying that He is at once Son and Father, seen and unseen, begotten and unbegotten, mortal and immortal. These take their starting-points from one Noetus.[68] 18. _Noetus._ 27. And in the same way Noetus, being a Smyrnæan by birth, a garrulous and versatile man, brought in this heresy, which from one Epigonus reached Cleomenes and has so remained with his successors until now. It says that the [Sidenote: p. 507.] Father and God of the universals is one and that He made all things, and became invisible to the things which are when He willed, and then appeared when he wished. And that He is invisible when He is not seen; but visible when He is seen; and unbegotten when He is not begotten, but begotten when He is begotten from a Virgin; and passionless and immortal when He does not suffer and die, but that when [the] Passion comes, He suffers and dies. They think this Father is Himself called Son according to times and circumstances.[69] The heresy of these persons Callistus confirmed, whose life we have faithfully set forth. Who himself gave birth to a heresy, taking starting-points from them, while himself confessing that this Fashioner the All is the Father and God; but that He is spoken of by name and named Son, while in substance He is (one Spirit). For God, he says is a Spirit not other than the Logos nor the Logos than God, and therefore this Person is divided in name indeed, but not in substance. And he names this one God, and says that He was incarnated. And he wishes the Son to be He who was seen and overcome according to [Sidenote: p. 508.] the flesh, but the Father to be He who dwelt within [Him]. He sometimes branches off to the heresy of Noetus and sometimes to that of Theodotus, but holds nothing steadfastly. This now Callistus. 19. _Hermogenes._ 28. But one Hermogenes having also wished to say something [new] said that God made all things out of co-existent and underlying matter. For that it is impossible to hold that God created existing things from those which are not.[70] 20. _Elchasaitae._