CLEINIAS: Stranger, I think that I see how a proof of their value may be obtained. This discussion of ours appears to me to have been singularly fortunate, and just what I at this moment want; most auspiciously have you and my friend Megillus come in my way. For I will tell you what has happened to me; and I regard the coincidence as a sort of omen. The greater part of Crete is going to send out a colony, and they have entrusted the management of the affair to the Cnosians; and the Cnosian government to me and nine others. And they desire us to give them any laws which we please, whether taken from the Cretan model or from any other; and they do not mind about their being foreign if they are better. Grant me then this favour, which will also be a gain to yourselves:--Let us make a selection from what has been said, and then let us imagine a State of which we will suppose ourselves to be the original founders. Thus we shall proceed with our enquiry, and, at the same time, I may have the use of the framework which you are constructing, for the city which is in contemplation. ATHENIAN: Good news, Cleinias; if Megillus has no objection, you may be sure that I will do all in my power to please you. CLEINIAS: Thank you. MEGILLUS: And so will I. CLEINIAS: Excellent; and now let us begin to frame the State. BOOK IV. ATHENIAN: And now, what will this city be? I do not mean to ask what is or will hereafter be the name of the place; that may be determined by the accident of locality or of the original settlement--a river or fountain, or some local deity may give the sanction of a name to the newly-founded city; but I do want to know what the situation is, whether maritime or inland. CLEINIAS: I should imagine, Stranger, that the city of which we are speaking is about eighty stadia distant from the sea. ATHENIAN: And are there harbours on the seaboard? CLEINIAS: Excellent harbours, Stranger; there could not be better. ATHENIAN: Alas! what a prospect! And is the surrounding country productive, or in need of importations? CLEINIAS: Hardly in need of anything. ATHENIAN: And is there any neighbouring State? CLEINIAS: None whatever, and that is the reason for selecting the place; in days of old, there was a migration of the inhabitants, and the region has been deserted from time immemorial. ATHENIAN: And has the place a fair proportion of hill, and plain, and wood? CLEINIAS: Like the rest of Crete in that. ATHENIAN: You mean to say that there is more rock than plain? CLEINIAS: Exactly.