The dialogues of Plato in five volumes, Vol. 2 (of 5) : $b Translated into English with analyses and introductions — Plato — John Shaqi
The dialogues of Plato in five volumes, Vol. 2 (of 5) : $b Translated into English with analyses and introductions
Plato · en
_Soc._ Well, then, let me now have the rest of my answer:—seeing
that rhetoric is one of those arts which works mainly
by the use of words, and there are other arts which also use
words, tell me what is that quality in words with which rhetoric
is concerned:—Suppose that a person asks me about
some of the arts which I was mentioning just now; he might
say, ‘Socrates, what is arithmetic?’ and I should reply to
him, as you replied to me, that arithmetic is one of those arts
which take effect through words. And then he would proceed
to ask: ‘Words about what?’ and I should reply,
Words about odd and even numbers, and how many there are
of each. And if he asked again: ‘What is the art of calculation?’
I should say, That also is one of the arts which is
concerned wholly with words. And if he further said, ‘Concerned
with what?’ I should say, like the clerks in the
assembly, ‘as aforesaid’ of arithmetic, but with a difference,
the difference being that the art of calculation considers not
only the quantities of odd and even numbers, but also their
numerical relations to themselves and to one another. And
suppose, again, I were to say that astronomy is only words—he
would ask, ‘Words about what, Socrates?’ and I should
answer, that astronomy tells us about the motions of the
stars and sun and moon, and their relative swiftness.
_Gor._ You would be quite right, Socrates.
[Sidenote: _The old drinking song._]
_Soc._ And now let us have from you, Gorgias, the truth
about rhetoric: which you would admit (would you not?) to
be one of those arts which act always and fulfil all their
ends through the medium of words?
[Sidenote: Rhetoric has to do with words: about the greatest and best of
human things.]
_Gor._ True.
_Soc._ Words which do what? I should ask. To what
class of things do the words which rhetoric uses relate?
_Gor._ To the greatest, Socrates, and the best of human
things.
_Soc._ That again, Gorgias, is ambiguous; I am still in the
dark: for which are the greatest and best of human things?
I dare say that you have heard men singing at feasts the old
drinking song, in which the singers enumerate the goods of
life, first health, beauty next, thirdly, as the writer of the
song says, wealth honestly obtained.
_Gor._ Yes, I know the song; but what is your drift? 452
[Sidenote: But which are they?]
[Sidenote: _Gorgias is brought to the point._]