SOCRATES: And they are not in the habit of deliberating about wrestling, in the assembly? ALCIBIADES: Hardly. SOCRATES: Then what are the deliberations in which you propose to advise them? Surely not about building? ALCIBIADES: No. SOCRATES: For the builder will advise better than you will about that? ALCIBIADES: He will. SOCRATES: Nor about divination? ALCIBIADES: No. SOCRATES: About that again the diviner will advise better than you will? ALCIBIADES: True. SOCRATES: Whether he be little or great, good or ill-looking, noble or ignoble--makes no difference. ALCIBIADES: Certainly not. SOCRATES: A man is a good adviser about anything, not because he has riches, but because he has knowledge? ALCIBIADES: Assuredly. SOCRATES: Whether their counsellor is rich or poor, is not a matter which will make any difference to the Athenians when they are deliberating about the health of the citizens; they only require that he should be a physician. ALCIBIADES: Of course. SOCRATES: Then what will be the subject of deliberation about which you will be justified in getting up and advising them? ALCIBIADES: About their own concerns, Socrates. SOCRATES: You mean about shipbuilding, for example, when the question is what sort of ships they ought to build? ALCIBIADES: No, I should not advise them about that. SOCRATES: I suppose, because you do not understand shipbuilding:--is that the reason? ALCIBIADES: It is. SOCRATES: Then about what concerns of theirs will you advise them? ALCIBIADES: About war, Socrates, or about peace, or about any other concerns of the state. SOCRATES: You mean, when they deliberate with whom they ought to make peace, and with whom they ought to go to war, and in what manner? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And they ought to go to war with those against whom it is better to go to war? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And when it is better? ALCIBIADES: Certainly. SOCRATES: And for as long a time as is better? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: But suppose the Athenians to deliberate with whom they ought to close in wrestling, and whom they should grasp by the hand, would you, or the master of gymnastics, be a better adviser of them? ALCIBIADES: Clearly, the master of gymnastics. SOCRATES: And can you tell me on what grounds the master of gymnastics would decide, with whom they ought or ought not to close, and when and how? To take an instance: Would he not say that they should wrestle with those against whom it is best to wrestle? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And as much as is best? ALCIBIADES: Certainly. SOCRATES: And at such times as are best? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Again; you sometimes accompany the lyre with the song and dance? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: When it is well to do so? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And as much as is well? ALCIBIADES: Just so.