SOCRATES: And as you speak of an excellence or art of the best in wrestling, and of an excellence in playing the lyre, I wish you would tell me what this latter is;--the excellence of wrestling I call gymnastic, and I want to know what you call the other. ALCIBIADES: I do not understand you. SOCRATES: Then try to do as I do; for the answer which I gave is universally right, and when I say right, I mean according to rule. ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And was not the art of which I spoke gymnastic? ALCIBIADES: Certainly. SOCRATES: And I called the excellence in wrestling gymnastic? ALCIBIADES: You did. SOCRATES: And I was right? ALCIBIADES: I think that you were. SOCRATES: Well, now,--for you should learn to argue prettily--let me ask you in return to tell me, first, what is that art of which playing and singing, and stepping properly in the dance, are parts,--what is the name of the whole? I think that by this time you must be able to tell. ALCIBIADES: Indeed I cannot. SOCRATES: Then let me put the matter in another way: what do you call the Goddesses who are the patronesses of art? ALCIBIADES: The Muses do you mean, Socrates? SOCRATES: Yes, I do; and what is the name of the art which is called after them? ALCIBIADES: I suppose that you mean music. SOCRATES: Yes, that is my meaning; and what is the excellence of the art of music, as I told you truly that the excellence of wrestling was gymnastic--what is the excellence of music--to be what? ALCIBIADES: To be musical, I suppose. SOCRATES: Very good; and now please to tell me what is the excellence of war and peace; as the more musical was the more excellent, or the more gymnastical was the more excellent, tell me, what name do you give to the more excellent in war and peace? ALCIBIADES: But I really cannot tell you. SOCRATES: But if you were offering advice to another and said to him--This food is better than that, at this time and in this quantity, and he said to you--What do you mean, Alcibiades, by the word 'better'? you would have no difficulty in replying that you meant 'more wholesome,' although you do not profess to be a physician: and when the subject is one of which you profess to have knowledge, and about which you are ready to get up and advise as if you knew, are you not ashamed, when you are asked, not to be able to answer the question? Is it not disgraceful? ALCIBIADES: Very. SOCRATES: Well, then, consider and try to explain what is the meaning of 'better,' in the matter of making peace and going to war with those against whom you ought to go to war? To what does the word refer? ALCIBIADES: I am thinking, and I cannot tell. SOCRATES: But you surely know what are the charges which we bring against one another, when we arrive at the point of making war, and what name we give them? ALCIBIADES: Yes, certainly; we say that deceit or violence has been employed, or that we have been defrauded.