are our rivals, and we can only overcome them by pains and skill. And if you fail in the required qualities, you will fail also in becoming renowned among Hellenes and Barbarians, which you seem to desire more than any other man ever desired anything. ALCIBIADES: I entirely believe you; but what are the sort of pains which are required, Socrates,--can you tell me? SOCRATES: Yes, I can; but we must take counsel together concerning the manner in which both of us may be most improved. For what I am telling you of the necessity of education applies to myself as well as to you; and there is only one point in which I have an advantage over you. ALCIBIADES: What is that? SOCRATES: I have a guardian who is better and wiser than your guardian, Pericles. ALCIBIADES: Who is he, Socrates? SOCRATES: God, Alcibiades, who up to this day has not allowed me to converse with you; and he inspires in me the faith that I am especially designed to bring you to honour. ALCIBIADES: You are jesting, Socrates. SOCRATES: Perhaps, at any rate, I am right in saying that all men greatly need pains and care, and you and I above all men. ALCIBIADES: You are not far wrong about me. SOCRATES: And certainly not about myself. ALCIBIADES: But what can we do? SOCRATES: There must be no hesitation or cowardice, my friend. ALCIBIADES: That would not become us, Socrates. SOCRATES: No, indeed, and we ought to take counsel together: for do we not wish to be as good as possible? ALCIBIADES: We do. SOCRATES: In what sort of virtue? ALCIBIADES: Plainly, in the virtue of good men. SOCRATES: Who are good in what? ALCIBIADES: Those, clearly, who are good in the management of affairs. SOCRATES: What sort of affairs? Equestrian affairs? ALCIBIADES: Certainly not. SOCRATES: You mean that about them we should have recourse to horsemen? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Well, naval affairs? ALCIBIADES: No. SOCRATES: You mean that we should have recourse to sailors about them? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Then what affairs? And who do them? ALCIBIADES: The affairs which occupy Athenian gentlemen. SOCRATES: And when you speak of gentlemen, do you mean the wise or the unwise? ALCIBIADES: The wise. SOCRATES: And a man is good in respect of that in which he is wise? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: And evil in respect of that in which he is unwise? ALCIBIADES: Certainly. SOCRATES: The shoemaker, for example, is wise in respect of the making of shoes? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Then he is good in that? ALCIBIADES: He is. SOCRATES: But in respect of the making of garments he is unwise? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Then in that he is bad? ALCIBIADES: Yes. SOCRATES: Then upon this view of the matter the same man is good and also bad? ALCIBIADES: True. SOCRATES: But would you say that the good are the same as the bad? ALCIBIADES: Certainly not. SOCRATES: Then whom do you call the good? ALCIBIADES: I mean by the good those who are able to rule in the city.