I am not prepared to say that this music publishers' combination is the most gigantic trust on earth, but it is an absolutely close and effective trust. You may reply that we have the right to play and put upon these records all of the old noncopyrighted productions, those that are now within the public domain. To that I reply that the perforated music roll man or the talking machine man who attempts to rely solely upon old music will go out of business inside of eighteen months. He has got to meet the demand for the popular airs of the day. He has got to be able to produce Sousa's and Victor Herbert's latest productions. "I want what I want when I want it." That is where the public stands. [Laughter.] You wait three years instead of fifty, and where would we be? Moreover, we go to Japan, we go to China, we go to the various countries of the earth, and make these records--get the original records. We do not make the original record on that disk. We do not make it upon that cylinder. We make an original record from the voice of the singer. That original record in the case of the cylinder is first very carefully covered with plumbago, to render it electrically conductive. It is then electroplated with copper; by applying cold, the original record is shrunk out, and you then have a mold, which has on its interior a perfect counterpart of the sound groove cut upon the face of the original record. We pour into that mold melted wax, or a composition that is called wax in the trade. When that is hot, it takes the impression of the mold and retains that until it sets; and as it cools it contracts, and we are then able to withdraw that from the mold, and after trimming the ends, that reproduction, that copy, is as perfect a record as the original one. If it were not so, we could not make and sell a record for fifty cents when we have to pay the singer from $500 to $1,000 or $3,000 for making the original record. Mr. WEBB. I was going to ask, How do you get Mr. Sousa's pieces? Do you pay him for it? Mr. CAMERON. We do not; no, sir. Mr. WEBB. Who does? Mr. CAMERON. The Victor Talking Machine Company has an exclusive contract with Mr. Sousa, and he gets paid for that. He did not tell you that the other day. Mr. SOUSA. That is absolutely untrue. Mr. CAMERON. If it is untrue I am ready to beg the gentleman's pardon. I had that information direct this morning, but I will gladly withdraw it upon Mr. Sousa's word--gladly. I do not want to make any misstatement. Mr. SOUSA. I have never received one penny for my compositions from any kind of talking machine, nor have I ever made a contract with any of those companies. Mr. CAMERON. I did not state that. I stated that Mr. Sousa, with his band, played into the horns of these instruments to make these records and was paid for doing it.