Caroli, once Romanist and now Protestant, whose inconsistencies we have seen and shall again see, spoke on this occasion with fairness. As doctor of the Sorbonne and a man of intelligence, he was well acquainted with the doctrine; only he did not walk according to its teaching. He rose and said, ‘To allege that works must be partners in justification is to enervate Jesus Christ; that is, to say that he alone is not sufficient to justify us. If a man be absolved through faith, it is certainly not in order that he may again begin doing evil. Just as when a king grants a pardon, it is not that the man may repeat his offence. God forgives all my offences only in order that I may do good works. Are you not yourselves in the habit of saying to a dying man, God is a greater _pardoner_ than man is an offender? The death of Jesus is more effectual in the punishment of sin than the death of all mankind.’[399] The laity were ashamed to see their cause so ill defended by their priests. The captain of the youth of Lausanne, Fernand de Loys, therefore entered the lists. He was a clear-headed man; he had learnt carefully some theses of the Romish theology, and had a little of that presumption which is frequently seen in the young men of whom he was one of the chiefs. He came forward, with his baton raised, speaking bluntly and without palliation. ‘The Church is before the Scripture, worthier than the Scripture, and invested with higher authority. Now the Church teaches justification by works.’ Farel, roused by hearing such assertions, exclaimed, ‘Which is first, the Church or the Scripture?... Certainly, the Scripture is before the Church. The Church has its existence through the Word of God; and Jesus himself proved what he said by reference to the Scriptures.’ Upon this the physician Blancherose thought he must come to the aid of the captain of the young men, and said to Farel, ‘In saying so much of faith, and in making it the cause of all good, you are very much like the sorcerers and enchanters, who, through the faith which they have in certain words, pretend to do so many great and wonderful things.’ Farel, taking little heed to these jests, said, ‘Jesus was beaten and wounded; he bore the discipline for our sakes; for us he died.’ The master of the Catholic school of Vevey, who was present, seems to have had a truer Christian feeling than his colleagues, and, profiting by Farel’s words, he said, ‘Precisely so; it is Jesus who justifies us, and not faith.’ This was more serious. Farel therefore supported the first part of the proposition. In opposing the second part, he said--‘Yes, it is Jesus alone who justifies; but he justifies only those who receive him by faith, and he dwells in those who believe. But as for those who do not believe in him, he is for them only a stone of stumbling and of ruin.’