Mr. VELDE. Isn’t it true, also, that Mr. Rabbitt appeared in executive session in June 1954 and refused to answer questions relating to his membership in the Communist Party and other activities along that line, relying on the fifth amendment? Mr. TAVENNER. That is correct, sir. Mr. O’Connell, did you confer with William Pennock and Tom Rabbitt or any of the other leaders of the Washington Pension Union regarding its organization, its policies, or any phases of its work? Mr. O’CONNELL. In view of the prefatory statements made by you and by Congressman Velde, and particularly with respect to the fact that you state that Rabbitt and Pennock were members of the district board of the Communist Party---- Mr. VELDE. Just a minute. I didn’t state that. I said two witnesses had testified that he was a member of the Communist Party. Mr. O’CONNELL. I see. I want to protect myself. I don’t know whether I can safely answer that question now. Mr. VELDE. What was the question? Mr. TAVENNER. Read the question, please. (The reporter read from his notes as requested.) Mr. O’CONNELL. That is a real difficult one for me to answer. As executive secretary of the Democratic Party, I probably, of course, suggested things they might do to help us in the campaign and so on. I don’t know, but I certainly--what I want to do--what I did was not because they were members of the district board of the Communist Party or because they were Communists, or anything of that kind. If I suggested something they ought to do about the Washington Pension Union either to Pennock or Rabbitt, it was in connection with either Democratic Party activity or Progressive Party activity as far as campaigns were concerned. It is a very broad general question. You asked me about it, any phases of its work. For instance, I mean we were certainly anxious in the Democratic Party and Progressive Party, too, to get the votes of the senior citizens of the State and---- Mr. TAVENNER. What do you mean by the “senior citizens”? Mr. O’CONNELL. The older people of the State that were in the pension organization, and so on. And outside the organization as well that they had influence on. Mr. TAVENNER. Were your discussions with the leadership of the Washington Pension Union chiefly with Pennock and Rabbitt? Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, during my time out there I think the Washington Pension Union, if I remember correctly, had a whole host of vice presidents, I don’t know how many, I think they elected--I think Rabbitt was one of those vice presidents. But the executive officer of the Washington Pension Union of course was Pennock and in my work as executive secretary of the Democratic Party and also the Progressive Party I certainly conferred with Pennock, I certainly asked him to see that things were done by the campaign and see that work was done in connection with it. But in my time out there I think, I don’t think Rabbitt was any kind of--was he a full-time paid employee of the Pension Union?