Mr. TAVENNER. I am not sure what his official connection was with it. Mr. O’CONNELL. My recollection is that he was one of the many vice presidents, I think if I recall there were about 16 vice presidents and I think he was one of them. As far as Rabbitt and Pennock were concerned, all of the time they were both leaders in the Democratic Party. Rabbitt was a Democrat State senator from a legislative district, Pennock was a representative from the same legislative district and likewise within the Democratic organization particularly in King County and because King County was the largest county in the State, the impact it would have on the State organization as well, I was thrown into considerable contact with them in my work as executive secretary of the Democratic Party with both Pennock and Rabbitt. Mr. VELDE. Mr. O’Connell, both Pennock and Rabbitt were generally known to be members of the Communist Party, as members of the district board, were they not? Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know. I couldn’t say. I don’t think Rabbitt acknowledged he was a member of the Communist Party and Pennock only announced it shortly before he died. Shortly before the beginning of the Smith Act trial in Seattle, he announced he was. Mr. TAVENNER. You were quite aware, were you not, of the effort being made by the Communist Party to take over the Washington Pension Union? Mr. O’CONNELL. I don’t know whether I--I was not in Washington Pension Union. I was not engaged in its work or activity. Mr. TAVENNER. Any person who has held the two positions that you have as secretary of two very active organizations would certainly have had his finger on the pulse of general activities in the community. You certainly knew, did you not, that the Communist Party was operating the Washington Pension Union? Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I certainly did not know that. I didn’t know that. Mr. TAVENNER. You believed it, didn’t you? Mr. O’CONNELL. No; I didn’t believe it. There are a lot of wonderful old people in that organization and Dr. Fisher---- Mr. TAVENNER. I am talking about the leadership. Mr. O’CONNELL. Who is the president of it---- Mr. TAVENNER. I have told you Mrs. Hartle said there were comparatively few. Mr. O’CONNELL. Mrs. Hartle, on her own acknowledgment was a functionary of the Communist Party, was she not? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes. Mr. O’CONNELL. She certainly would know whether they were working or not, but I was not a functionary of the Communist Party and I wouldn’t know what the Communist Party was doing as far as the Pension Union was concerned. Mr. VELDE. You had no inkling whatsoever that Pennock, Rabbitt, and Mrs. Hartle were members of the Communist Party? Mr. O’CONNELL. I had no inkling? Mr. VELDE. Suspicion. Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. Mr. VELDE. You did have a suspicion they were? Mr. O’CONNELL. Yes. Mr. VELDE. Upon what did you base that suspicion? Mr. O’CONNELL. I couldn’t prove it. Of course it was not my particular job to prove it.