Mr. VELDE. Certainly not. No question about that. Mr. TAVENNER. In your judgment what was the purpose of the Communist Party in attempting to capture the leadership of the Washington Pension Union? Mr. O’CONNELL. In my judgment what would it have been? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes. Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, I presume, as Mrs. Hartle states there, they were engaged in developing what she called mass organizations and so on, and this was a large organization, there isn’t any doubt about that, there was a very, very large group. I think the membership of 10,000 is even underestimated. My feeling is its membership ran closer to 16,000 just from my contact with it. I presume they would like to control it because of its tremendous effect and tremendous influence without any doubt. I know in the Democratic Party I wanted to make sure that the pension union supported the candidates of the Democratic Party. We worked hard to get them to indorse and support Democratic Party candidates and to work for them every way we knew how. Mr. TAVENNER. Did the leadership in the Washington Pension Union endeavor to influence the selection of candidates for office in either the Progressive Party or the Democratic Party while you were secretary? Mr. O’CONNELL. Did the Washington Pension Union try---- Mr. TAVENNER. Yes; through its leadership, try to influence the selection of individuals for office. Mr. O’CONNELL. If you mean they wanted certain people elected---- Mr. TAVENNER. I am not talking about supporting certain people but did they endeavor to get certain individuals selected for party nomination. Mr. O’CONNELL. By that do you mean did they go out and select certain people? Mr. TAVENNER. Did the leadership in the Washington Pension Union try to influence your party organization in behalf of certain individuals in whom they were interested? Mr. O’CONNELL. As far as the party organization was concerned, we had the Democratic primary where the people voted in the Democratic primary and selected the nominees and then after the Democratic nominees were selected and so on, I would say the Washington Pension Union with rare exceptions--and I think those exceptions were some 9 or 10 State senators who were called quisling senators, who didn’t support the Democratic organization in the State senate at the time--I think the Washington Pension Union generally supported the Democratic Party. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Eugene Dennett testified that the purpose of the Communist Party in exerting its infiltration efforts in both the Washington Commonwealth Federation and the Washington Pension Union was to strengthen its own political influence. I shall read a part of his testimony. In referring to the Washington Commonwealth Federation he said: It was our estimate that it was capable-- by “our” he is referring to the Communist Party--