The dialogue then continues. _Sokr._--We wish to become as good as possible. But in what sort of virtue? _Alk._--In that virtue which belongs to good men. _Sokr._--Yes, but _good_, in what matters? _Alk._--Evidently, to men who are good in transacting business. _Sokr._--Ay, but what kind of business? business relating to horses, or to navigation? If that be meant, we must go and consult horse-trainers or mariners? _Alk._--No, I mean such business as is transacted by the most esteemed leaders in Athens. _Sokr._--You mean the intelligent men. Every man is good, in reference to that which he understands: every man is bad, in reference to that which he does not understand. _Alk._--Of course. _Sokr._--The cobbler understands shoemaking, and is therefore good at _that_: he does not understand weaving, and is therefore bad at that. The same man thus, in your view, will be both good and bad?[17] _Alk._--No: that cannot be. _Sokr._--Whom then do you mean, when you talk of _the good_? _Alk._--I mean those who are competent to command in the city. _Sokr._--But to command whom or what--horses or men? _Alk._--To command men. _Sokr._--But what men, and under what circumstances? sick men, or men on shipboard, or labourers engaged in harvesting, or in what occupations? _Alk._--I mean, men living in social and commercial relation with each other, as we live here; men who live in common possession of the same laws and government. _Sokr._--When men are in communion of a sea voyage and of the same ship, how do we name the art of commanding them, and to what purpose does it tend? _Alk._--It is the art of the pilot; and the purpose towards which it tends, is, bringing them safely through the dangers of the sea. _Sokr._--When men are in social and political communion, to what purpose does the art of commanding them tend? _Alk._--Towards the better preservation and administration of the city.[18] _Sokr._--But what do you mean by _better_? What is that, the presence or absence of which makes _better_ or _worse_? If in regard to the management of the body, you put to me the same question, I should reply, that it is the presence of health, and the absence of disease. What reply will you make, in the case of the city? _Alk._--I should say, when friendship and unanimity among the citizens are present, and when discord and antipathy are absent. _Sokr._--This unanimity, of what nature is it? Respecting what subject? What is the art or science for realising it? If I ask you what brings about unanimity respecting numbers and measures, you will say the arithmetical and the metrêtic art. _Alk._--I mean that friendship and unanimity which prevails between near relatives, father and son, husband and wife. _Sokr._--But how can there be unanimity between any two persons, respecting subjects which one of them knows, and the other does not know? For example, about spinning and weaving, which the husband does not know, or about military