naturally conceded what Mr. Rockefeller wanted. There was another point. If the Central did not concede to Mr. Rockefeller’s terms it undoubtedly would lose the freight. There was the lake and the canal and there was the Erie! Now it is not supposable that such an arrangement would go on long without leaking out in the upper oil circles. We have evidence that it did not. Indeed, there was among certain intelligent oil men a conviction when the agreement was signed that the New York roads would not regard it—that if they did it would ruin the refining business of Cleveland. W. T. Scheide, a member of the oil men’s committee making this contract, the agent of one of the largest oil shippers in the country, Adnah Neyhart, in some frank and suggestive testimony given to the Hepburn Committee in 1879, said that at the time the arrangement was made he did not think anybody connected with the business expected it would last. “My reason for that was that it was an impossible agreement,” said Mr. Scheide. “The immediate effect of it would have been to have utterly destroyed fifty-five per cent. of the refining interest of the country; that is to say, Cleveland and Pittsburg, which during the previous four years had shipped fifty-five per cent. of all the oil out of the Oil Regions—they, in addition to paying the rates of freights which all other refiners would have had to pay, were required to pay fifty cents a barrel on their crude oil to their works.” The refiners in Cleveland and Pittsburg had of course always paid to get crude oil to their works, even the South Improvement Company tariffs provided for that, and under that arrangement Cleveland had come to be in 1871 the chief refining centre of the country. The chairman of the committee examining Mr. Scheide suggested it was a “temporary impossibility which would have adjusted itself,” which Mr. Scheide admitted. “Yes, sir, naturally, it would have adjusted itself I suppose, but the effect was very marked at the time.” So strong was Mr. Scheide’s conviction that the New York roads would not stand the new rates that on the 10th of April he went to the Pennsylvania railroad and asked for a rebate on Mr. Neyhart’s crude shipments—and got it. What the rebate was he does not state, but Mr. Flagler tells us in his testimony[35] that in December he discovered that the Pennsylvania was shipping for as low as $1.05 a barrel. And for one month he got from Mr. Vanderbilt a rate of $1.05 on his 4,000 barrels a day.