"Does he view matters in that light?" "Did I say he did." "Yes." There was no further response. Stephen had, by this time, become thoroughly exasperated with this man, and was about to eject him forcibly from the room. His better judgment, however, bade him restrain himself. A tilt in a public drinking house would only noise his name abroad and perhaps give rise to much unpleasantness. "How can a man consistently be subject to any civil ruler when he already has pledged his allegiance, both in soul and in body, to another potentate?" This from the man in black, the fourth member of the party, who heretofore had maintained an impartial and respectful silence, not so much from choice perhaps as through necessity. His name proved to be John Anderson. "You mean an alien?" Stephen inquired. "If you are pleased so to term it. The Pope is a temporal lord, you understand, and as such is due allegiance from every one of his subjects." And then Stephen took pains to explain, clearly and concisely, the great difference between the two authorities--the civil and the religious. The Prince of Peace had said, "Render unto Caeesar the things that are Caeesar's, and to God the things that are God's," which declaration admitted of an interpretation at once comprehensive and exclusive. He explained how the Catholic found himself a member of two distinct and perfect societies, each independent and absolute within its own sphere, the one deriving its charter from the natural law, the other directly from God. He then pointed out how these societies lived in perfect harmony, although armed with two swords, the one spiritual, the other temporal, weapons which were intended never to clash but to fight side by side for the promotion of man's happiness, temporal and eternal. "But it is inconceivable how a clash can be avoided," Mr. Anderson reminded him. "Not when it is remembered that each authority is independent of the other. The Church has no power over civil legislation in matters purely secular, nor has the state a right to interfere in ecclesiastical legislation, in matters purely spiritual, nor over spiritual persons considered strictly as such. In every Catholic country the King, as well as the humblest peasant, is subject to the laws of his country in secular matters, and to the laws of his church in matters spiritual." "Yet at the same time he cannot fail to recognize that the one is superior to the other." "Only in so far as the spiritual order is superior to the secular." "Not in temporal affairs as well?" "Not in the least. Only in the recognition of the fact that the salvation of the soul is of more importance than the welfare of the body. In this is the mission of the state considered inferior to that of the Church." "If this be true, how can a Catholic pay allegiance to a society which he believes to be a subordinate one?"