In answer to a question by Commissioner Kernan as to what he would suggest to prevent railroad strikes in the future, Mr. Howard replied that the government ownership and control of railroads was the only practical solution of the question. He argued that about one third of the railroads of the country are practically under control of the government, and thought the balance could easily be taken. He claimed the Santa Fe was from two to four months behind in payment of wages; that it would seem only fair that the government should see that the men were paid. The government had gone to the extent of forcing the employes of that and other roads to work whether they wished to or not and he thought the other step might as well be taken at once. Mr. Sovereign, grand master workman of the Knights of Labor, was the next witness. He testified that he was a member of the American Railway Union. Said the only official connection the Knights of Labor had with the strike was the adoption of a resolution that they would not ride in Pullman cars. He also stated that a general tie-up of all the industries in the country to force public sentiment on Pullman and bring to bear on the Pullman company the greatest possible pressure was contemplated, but it was found the tie-up could not be made sufficiently general to bring about the desired results, so it was not attempted. Commissioner Kernan: "Then you do not consider the American Railway Union responsible for the rioting that occurred?" Mr. Sovereign: "No, sir. In fact I do not think there was any rioting." Commissioner Kernan: "Do you consider burning cars a species of rioting?" Mr. Sovereign: "Not when it was done by U. S. marshalls." Commissioner Kernan: "Was it so done?" Mr. Sovereign: "I read reports in Mayor Hopkins' office to-day to that effect--reports that seem conclusive on that point. Moreover I don't think there was as much rioting as is generally believed. I came from Des Moines on what was supposed to be the last train to Chicago. We arrived without incident at Blue Island on July 6. There the train was side tracked and we were told by the officials that it could go no further because of the mobs between there and the city. I saw a west bound mail train on another track and was told it had been there for twenty-six hours and could not proceed on account of the mob and violence beyond, though it would go on the very same track on which we had just arrived. I bought a ticket from Blue Island to Chicago on the Wisconsin Central. After coming a short distance the train stopped and the conductor told us we could go no further on account of mobs ahead of us. I picked up my grip with the intention of walking to the city, but the conductor cautioned me against risking my life. However I walked in, was not molested, saw no disorder and did not see more then ten men at any one place." Mr. Kernan inquired what views the Knights of Labor held about letting non-union men take the places of strikers.