Mr. Sovereign: "That depends on circumstances. In the case of mine owners, for instance, who have sold houses to their employes who have partly paid for same, the unjust discharge of these men means a forfeiture to the mine owners of all money paid on the property. We hold that we must by all honorable means prevent others from taking their places." Commissioner Kernan: "But suppose honorable means are not effective?" Mr. Sovereign: "Well, if it's necessary to prevent them from passing a given line we clasp hands and keep them out." Commissioner Kernan: "You do not assault them?" Mr. Sovereign: "No. If they break through they assault us." Mr. Sovereign did not think that strikes or compulsory arbitration was the remedy for labor troubles. He believed that the government ownership of railroads would settle the trouble for employes. He also believed the employes of corporations had an equity in their positions and for unjust discharge should have a remedy in a court of equity. Mr. Kernan: "Why cannot the contract between employer and employe provide for all you want the law to cover?" Mr. Sovereign: "Because labor is always dependent, always has been at least and is forced by the duress of circumstances to accept employment without insisting on protecting conditions." George W. Lovejoy was the next witness to take the stand. In answer to a question by Commissioner Wright, he said: "I am familiar with the history of the strike on the Rock Island road. Beside the order passed by the convention to refuse to handle Pullman cars, the men at La Salle had a special grievance that consisted of unjust treatment of the members of the American Railway Union which had a local lodge at that point. I for one was dismissed without any cause being assigned. Complaint was made to Supt. Dunlap and an explanation asked as to why the men were discharged. He refused to consider the grievance submitted to him so the men concluded to strike." Commissioner Wright: "Was the grievance submitted in writing?" Mr. Lovejoy: "It was. I have not a copy, but think I can get one from the local union." Commissioner Wright: "What part did your local union take in the Pullman strike?" Mr. Lovejoy: "It decided to sustain it." Mr. Worthington: "Was there any violence at La Salle?" Mr. Lovejoy: "No, sir. None whatever." Commissioner Kernan: "Have any of the old men been taken back?" Mr. Lovejoy: "No, sir. And never will." Mr. Worthington: "Is it on account of the strike that they cannot get back?" Mr. Lovejoy: "I suppose it is." Commissioner Kernan: "How general was the strike at La Salle?" Mr. Lovejoy: "It extended to every branch of the service. Switchmen, firemen, engineers, conductors, brakemen, telegraph operators, clerks, round-housemen and trackmen." Commissioner Kernan: "Now tell us about the cause that led to your discharge as you understand it?"