Mr. WILLIAMS. I could not possibly have told him that, because you cannot see anything coming down from that position. Mr. BALL. And that you did not see anyone coming down. Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. An elephant could walk by there, and you could not see him. Mr. BALL. That day we were out there, Friday, March 20th, we took some pictures. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. I show you 490. (The document described was marked Exhibit No. 490 for identification.) Mr. BALL. We took a picture from where you were standing towards the stairs. Do you recognize that? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What is that? Mr. WILLIAMS. This is the side we were on. I believe these are the bookshelves I was speaking of. Mr. BALL. That is the ones that hide the stairwell? Mr. WILLIAMS. That is right. Mr. BALL. And the camera is--you saw where the camera was set, didn't you? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. You saw these pictures taken? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Where was the camera? Mr. WILLIAMS. The camera was located about the exact place I was standing looking out this window. Mr. BALL. That would be "Z" on 487? Mr. WILLIAMS. That's right. Mr. BALL. And was pointed toward what direction? Mr. WILLIAMS. It was pointed towards the stairway and the bookcase. Mr. BALL. The way you would have been looking on that day? Mr. WILLIAMS. Right. Mr. BALL. And this shows those shelves. Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. I have two other pictures I would like to show, and I would like to show the Commissioners all three at the same time. Now, do you recall that we had you three men stand near the stairwell? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Now, on this picture here, on 487, that would be what location? Mr. WILLIAMS. On this picture here, that would be about right in here. Mr. BALL. Near the "up", is that right? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. I would like to have the Commissioners note that--that the man was standing near the "up" part of the stairwell. We took your pictures three in a row, is that right? Mr. WILLIAMS. That is right. Mr. BALL. And then do you recall the picture was taken? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; I recall this picture. This picture was taken from the position we were standing, and it gave the view of--the only thing you would be able to see from this point. And this picture here was James Jarman, which we were standing shoulder to shoulder. Mr. BALL. Also were the cartons piled at that time so that--as they were here--on the day, November 22d, were the cartons piled somewhat like they are here? Mr. WILLIAMS. They were piled somewhat like here, because they have been rearranged since that time. Mr. BALL. Now, in both pictures, 492 and 490, you see two windows, do you not? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And those windows are shown on the diagram of the fifth floor, 487, as where? Mr. WILLIAMS. Right here. Mr. BALL. The windows next to the west elevator? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.