Mr. BALL. And in this picture, are you able to see either elevator? Mr. WILLIAMS. In this picture? Mr. BALL. This picture--490 and 492--are you able to see either elevator? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; you cannot see exactly the elevator. Mr. BALL. Now, in this picture, 491, where is the downstairs? Mr. WILLIAMS. The downstairs come right in here. Mr. BALL. Are you able to see the opening of the downstairs from this view, 492? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. Mr. BALL. And the thing that obstructs your view is this shelving, is that right? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; that's right. Mr. DULLES. How long has that shelving been there--for quite a long while? Or was it put there recently? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think it was there from the time I started, as far as I can remember. Mr. DULLES. That goes back to the time you were first employed there? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. At the time I came to the building. Mr. DULLES. So it could not have been put up a day or two before. Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you hear anyone going up or down the stairs? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, I didn't. Mr. BALL. Did you pay any attention to that? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. Mr. BALL. As you were standing at the window, did you hear any footsteps? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Up above--hear any movement up above? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; I don't remember. Mr. BALL. Were you paying any attention whether or not there was anyone up above? Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; we wasn't paying any attention. Mr. BALL. Now, in this FBI report that we have dated the 23d of November 1963, the report that you said that someone might have been coming down on the elevator and you would not have noticed that. Did you say that? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think I remember saying that. Mr. BALL. After you stood at the west window for a while, what did you do? Mr. WILLIAMS. After we stood at the west window for a while, we decided to go down. Then we left. Mr. BALL. How did you go down? Mr. WILLIAMS. By stairs. Mr. BALL. Where did you go? Mr. WILLIAMS. We went to the fourth floor first. Then we paused for a minute there, where we saw these women looking out of the window. Then we decided to go down to the first floor, and we ran on down. Mr. BALL. When you got to the first floor, what did you see there? Mr. McCLOY. How did you get to the first floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. By stairs. Mr. DULLES. There were some people on the fourth floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I remember seeing maybe two or three women standing in the window, looking out the window. Mr. DULLES. Looking out the window? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Mr. McCLOY. Which stairway did they take, west or east? Mr. BALL. There was only one stairway, and that is the one in the corner. Did you run down stairs? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; we ran. Mr. BALL. When you got to the first floor, what did you see?