Mr. BALL. The farthest window, is that right? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. I have here a diagram of this fifth floor. Mr. McCLOY. May I interrupt there. Mr. BALL. Go right ahead. Mr. McCLOY. You spoke about seeing the President sort of slump over after the first shot? Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I believe the first. Mr. McCLOY. Did you see the President hit on any subsequent shots? Mr. NORMAN. No; I don't recall seeing that. Mr. BALL. Here is a diagram of the sixth floor. Mr. NORMAN. The sixth floor? Mr. BALL. Of the fifth floor rather, which is Commission's 487, and this is the southeast corner window. To what window did you and your two friends run? Mr. NORMAN. This is the south. This is the window we were in. We came to this last, I believe it is the next to the last or the last window on this end here, right here. Mr. BALL. And the other day when you were up on the fifth floor with a photographer, you ran to that window, did you? Mr. NORMAN. Well, we ran to the window, we thought it was the window we ran to. Mr. BALL. And you opened that window? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And had your picture taken? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Here is 485. Is that the window as you remembered it that you ran to? Mr. NORMAN. I can't say it was that particular window that day but it was between these two windows here. Mr. BALL. One of the two windows? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. This is marked Y here on 487, is that correct? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Why did you run down to that window? Mr. NORMAN. Well, it seems as though everyone else was running towards the railroad tracks, and we ran over there. Curious to see why everybody was running that way for. I thought maybe---- Mr. BALL. Did anybody say anything about going up to the sixth floor? Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember anyone saying about going up to the sixth floor. Mr. BALL. Then did you leave that window that you have marked Y on 487? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And you went to what window? Mr. NORMAN. To the west window. Mr. BALL. Look on the diagram and tell me what window you went to, as you remember it? Mr. NORMAN. It was between this point here, these two right here. Mr. BALL. That is marked Z? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Is that correct? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. What did you do when you went to that window? Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember if we raised the window or not but I remember looking out the window that day. Mr. BALL. Here is a picture 489 taken last Friday when you were with me on that floor? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Do you show in the picture? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Is that the window you looked out of? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I believe that is the one. Mr. BALL. What did you look at when you looked out that window? Mr. NORMAN. We saw the policeman, and I guess they were detectives, they were searching the empty cars over there. I remember seeing some guy on top of them. Mr. BALL. On top of the cars?