Mr. BALL. From the time that you went down on the first door until you left the building to go home did you leave the building at all? Mr. NORMAN. No; I didn't. Mr. BALL. Where did you stay? Mr. NORMAN. They kept us on the first floor. Mr. BALL. You did make a statement later to the Secret Service, didn't you? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. I have here a document 493, which is a copy of a statement made by this witness, which I now mark 493. (The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 493, for identification.) Mr. BALL. The document that I have here shows the date 4th of December 1963. Do you remember having made a statement to Mr. Carter, Special Agent of the Secret Service, on that day? Mr. NORMAN. I can't remember the exact date but I believe I remember Mr. Carter. Mr. BALL. I want to call your attention to one part of the statement and I will ask you if you told him that: "Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me." Did you make that statement to the Secret Service man? Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember making a statement that I knew the shots came from directly above us. I didn't make that statement. And I don't remember saying I heard several seconds later. I merely told him that I heard three shots because I didn't have any idea what time it was. Mr. BALL. I see. Did you tell them that you heard the bolt action of the rifle? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And that you heard the expended cartridges fall to the floor? Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I heard them making a sound. Mr. BALL. I would like to offer this into evidence. Mr. McCLOY. It may be admitted. (The document referred to, heretofore identified as Commission Exhibit No. 493 for identification, was received in evidence.) Mr. McCLOY. You used the expression you heard the ejection. This refers to the bolt action? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. McCLOY. Those are the same things? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; that is what I mean. Mr. McCLOY. That is what you meant by that? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What language did you use when you talked to the Secret Service man, do you know? Did you say you heard the ejection or that you heard the bolt action? Which did you use? Mr. NORMAN. I probably said the ejection. Mr. BALL. That is what you think you said? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. The same thing you said here? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Do you remember Friday that we conducted an experiment to see whether or not you could hear? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. From the sixth floor? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And where did you put yourself in order to conduct the experiment?