Mr. NORMAN. In the same window. I may not have been in the same position but I was in the same window. Mr. BALL. The same window? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And that window was open? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And the window, was the window on the sixth floor also open? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; they told me it was open. I didn't see it. Mr. BALL. And a Secret Service man went upstairs with a rifle, didn't he? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. What did you hear on the fifth floor? Mr. NORMAN. Well, I heard the same sound, the sound similar. I heard three something that he dropped on the floor and then I could hear the rifle or whatever he had up there. Mr. BALL. You could hear the rifle, the sound of an ejection? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you hear the sound of the bolt going back and forth? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I sure did. Mr. BALL. You could hear it clearly, could you? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Now there has been a new floor put in on the sixth floor, hasn't there? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. The day that you were there on November 22, what was the condition of the ceiling and the floor of the sixth floor? Mr. NORMAN. I would say that you could see daylight through there because during the times they put the plywood down you can see the plywood, some portion of the plywood, so I would say you could see a little daylight during that time. Mr. BALL. When you were there Friday afternoon, did you look up at the ceiling from where you were sitting at the southeast window on the fifth floor? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What could you see on the ceiling? Mr. NORMAN. There was one place I could see the plywood and then another place you could still see a little daylight, I mean peering through the crack. Mr. BALL. What about the joint where the upper floor or the floor of the sixth and ceiling of the fifth floor comes against the wall. Could you see daylight through there? Mr. NORMAN. Against the wall? Mr. BALL. Yes. Mr. NORMAN. Yes; in one place you could see a small amount of daylight. Mr. BALL. Now the day of the experiment last Friday when you heard the cartridges eject, the bolt action and the cartridges ejecting---- Mr. NORMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Was there any noise outside? Mr. NORMAN. Yes; there was. Mr. BALL. What was it? Mr. NORMAN. There was a train and there were trucks and cars. Mr. BALL. Was there more noise or less noise on the day you conducted the experiment last Friday, March 20, than on November 22, at 12:30? Mr. NORMAN. It was more noise last Friday than it was November 22. Mr. BALL. Was there any train going by on November 22? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Were there any trucks going by on November 22? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. I have no further questions. Mr. McCLOY. How did you get your job at the Texas School Book Depository?