Mr. NORMAN. Well, as I remember the time that I told you before I used to live in Salina and washing cars at the Chevrolet company I had a friend that lived in Dallas and he was working down there, and he told me that he thought that I could get a job down there, and that is how I got familiar with the place. I did go by there and Mr. Truly gave me a job. Mr. McCLOY. Were you getting better pay there than you had at your former job? Mr. NORMAN. At the Chevrolet company? Mr. McCLOY. Yes. Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I was getting better pay there. Mr. McCLOY. Do you have any rough recollection of the amount of time that passed between the time you heard the first shot and when you ran down to the west end of the building and looked out the window there and the time when you left the fifth floor and finally came down to the first floor where the police officers were? Can you give me a general estimate of about how much time that took? Mr. NORMAN. To come down from the fifth floor? Mr. McCLOY. Yes. From the time you first heard the shot and saw what was going on in the motorcade and then ran down toward the western end of the building and then as I understand your testimony, you left there and went down to the--did you go down to the fourth floor first or did you go all the way down? Mr. NORMAN. I believe we went all the way. Mr. McCLOY. Until you got down to the first floor, how much would you say was the entire length of that time, from the first shot until you got down on the first floor? Mr. NORMAN. Oh, I would say somewhere between 10 or 15 minutes, somewhere like that. Mr. McCLOY. I don't think I have any other questions. Mr. BALL. I have one question. On the 26th of November, an FBI agent named Kreutzer advises us in a report that he talked to you. Do you remember that? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. You remember? Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I remember talking to him. I don't know his name. Mr. BALL. He reports that you told him that you heard a shot and that you stuck your head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above you. Did you tell him that? Mr. NORMAN. I don't recall telling him that. Mr. BALL. Did you ever put your head out the window? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't remember ever putting my head out the window. Mr. BALL. And he reports that you stated that two additional shots were fired after you pulled your head back in from the window. Do you remember telling him that? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't. Mr. BALL. I have no further questions. Mr. McCLOY. Have you ever had any difficulty with the law? Have you ever been convicted of a crime? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. Mr. McCLOY. At the time after you heard the shots, did you have any thought that you might run upstairs and see if anybody was up there where the shots were coming from there? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. Mr. McCLOY. Did you feel that it might be dangerous to go upstairs?