Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. McCLOY. You testified that you had not seen Oswald except this one occasion in the morning. Did you hear any of your friends or coworkers say whether they had seen Oswald on that morning? Mr. NORMAN. Not until after---- Mr. McCLOY. After the assassination? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; that is the only time. Mr. BELIN. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) The CHAIRMAN. Did you see Brennan down there when you came downstairs? Did you come out the front door? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I came out the front door and I remember seeing Mr. Brennan. Mr. BELIN. About how long after the shooting was that? Mr. NORMAN. It wasn't very long because--I can't remember the time but it wasn't too long a period of time, and I remember seeing him because he had on a steel helmet, a little steel helmet. Representative FORD. Was he standing with another man and they called you over? Mr. NORMAN. I don't know if he was exactly standing with another man, but it was several people standing around there, and I remember him talking and I believe I remember him saying that he saw us when we first went up to the fifth floor window, he saw us then. I believe I heard him say that, but otherwise I don't know if he was standing by. There was quite a few people standing around there. Representative FORD. You were stopped and Mr. Brennan made these comments? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I remember. Representative FORD. On the front entrance steps? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Representative FORD. Of the Depository Building? Mr. NORMAN. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Then did you go out of the building, away from the building or come back? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; we had to go back inside. The CHAIRMAN. You had to go back? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. In other words, you went out in front? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And then came back? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. After you had gone to the first floor? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir. Representative FORD. Did law enforcement officers make you go back or did you do it on your own initiative? Mr. NORMAN. I remember, I don't know if this is the only time or not, but I remember the law enforcement saying not to let anybody leave from the building and I can't remember if that is the time we went back in the building or before or what. Mr. BALL. Who did you go out with? Mr. NORMAN. I know James Jarman and I went out. I can't remember. Representative FORD. May I ask did we get into the testimony enough of his background and biography? Mr. BALL. Clear from where he was born, through high school and all his jobs through high school. He is 26 years old, married, and never been in any trouble in his life. I think that is all. Mr. McCLOY. Thank you, Mr. Norman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much for coming. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) TESTIMONY OF JAMES JARMAN, JR. Mr. BELIN. Chief Justice Warren, this is Mr. Jarman. The CHAIRMAN. How do you do. Glad to see you.