Mr. BALL. You didn't go through and cross the first floor? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; there was too many people standing on the stairway there, so we decided to go around. Mr. BALL. You went in the back door? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. That would be the north entrance to the building, wouldn't it? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. Did you take an elevator or the stairs? Mr. JARMAN. We took the elevator. Mr. BALL. Which elevator? Mr. JARMAN. The west side elevator. Mr. BALL. That is the one you use a punch button on, isn't it? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. Where did you go? Mr. JARMAN. To the fifth floor. Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the fifth floor? Mr. JARMAN. We just decided to go to the fifth floor. Mr. BALL. Was there any reason why you should go to the fifth floor any more than the fourth or the sixth? Mr. JARMAN. No. Mr. BALL. Did you know who made the suggestion you go to the fifth floor? Mr. JARMAN. Well, I don't know if it was myself or Hank. Mr. BALL. When you got there was there anybody on the fifth floor? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you do when you got to the fifth floor? Mr. JARMAN. We got out the elevator and pulled the gate down. That was in case somebody wanted to use it. Then we went to the front of the building, which is on the south side, and raised the windows. Mr. BALL. Which windows did you raise? Mr. JARMAN. Well, Harold raised the first window to the east side of the building, and I went to the second rear windows and raised, counting the windows, it would be the fourth one. Mr. BALL. It would be the fourth window? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Did somebody join you then? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir; a few minutes later. Mr. BALL. Who joined you? Mr. JARMAN. Bonnie Ray Williams. Mr. BALL. And where did he stand or sit? Mr. JARMAN. He took the window next to Harold Norman. Mr. BALL. I show you a picture which is 480, a picture of the Texas School Book Depository Building. Can you show me the window before which you were standing and out of which you were looking? Mr. JARMAN. This window here. Mr. BALL. It is marked W on this picture. Where was Harold Norman, the window out of which Harold Norman was looking? Mr. JARMAN. He was first right here. Mr. BALL. That is the one marked with a red arrow? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Where was Bonnie Ray Williams? Mr. JARMAN. Bonnie Ray Williams was in this one. Mr. BALL. Next to the window of Norman, is that right? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Was---- Mr. BELIN. What exhibit is that? Mr. BALL. That is 480. This is 482. You recognize those two pictures? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Who are they? Mr. JARMAN. Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams. Mr. BALL. Now the other day you went up to the fifth floor of the Texas State School Book Depository with me and a photographer, and had your picture taken, did you not? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. And what did I ask you to do before the picture was taken?