Mr. JARMAN. He said that he was sure that the shot came from inside the building because he had been used to guns and all that, and he said it didn't sound like it was too far off anyway. And so we ran down to the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. Did Norman say anything about hearing cartridges or ejection or anything like that, do you remember? Mr. JARMAN. That was after we got down to the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. After you got down where? Mr. JARMAN. To the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. Down the west side? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. Now you ran down to the west side of the building, did you? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And when you were up there you showed me the window to which you ran, didn't you? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. The picture was taken of you at that place? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. When you ran down there was the window open or closed? Mr. JARMAN. It was closed. Mr. BALL. And who opened it? Mr. JARMAN. I did. Mr. BALL. And what did you do after you opened the window? Mr. JARMAN. I leaned out and the officers and various people was running across the tracks, toward the tracks over there where they had the passenger trains, and all, boxcars and things. Mr. BALL. I show you 488. What does that show? Mr. JARMAN. That shows me leaning out the window and Bonnie Ray and Harold Norman was over to the side of me. Mr. BALL. What window? Mr. JARMAN. The window on the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. Is that the one to which you ran after you heard the shots? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And you looked out that window? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. How did you happen to run to that window? Mr. JARMAN. Well, I wanted to see what was going on mostly, because that was after the motorcade car had took off, and I thought they had stopped under the underpass, but they hadn't. So they went on around the bend, and after I couldn't see from there I ran to another, the second window. Mr. BALL. That second one you ran to, you pointed that out to me last Friday, did you? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And the picture was taken of that, is that right? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And that window is on which side? Mr. JARMAN. On the west side of the building also. Mr. BALL. I show you 489. Is that a picture of the west window? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And what did you see when you looked out that window? Mr. JARMAN. When I looked out that window, I saw the policemen and the secret agents, the FBI men, searching the boxcar yard and the passenger train and things like that. Mr. BALL. Where were you when you heard Harold Norman say something that he had heard cartridges? Mr. JARMAN. All that took place right here in this corner after we had went to this window. Mr. BALL. This corner. What corner do you mean? Mr. JARMAN. In the corner of the building right after we had looked out this window. Mr. BALL. Which corner?