Mr. JARMAN. Right here on the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. On the west side of the building? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. And would that be the window that is shown in 488, or the window that is shown in 489? Mr. JARMAN. It was between the two windows. Mr. BALL. Between the two? Mr. JARMAN. As we was going to this window. Mr. BALL. To that window? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. What did you hear him say? Mr. JARMAN. He said it was something sounded like cartridges hitting the floor, and he could hear the action of the rifle, I mean the bolt, as it were pulled back, or something like that. Mr. BALL. Had you heard anything like that? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; I hadn't. Mr. BALL. Had you heard any person running upstairs? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Or any steps upstairs? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Any noise at all up there? Mr. JARMAN. None. Mr. BALL. I have here a diagram which is 487. This is the southeast corner of the building on this diagram. Do you recognize that? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. This is the Elm Street side? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Will you point out the window to which you three boys ran when you looked out, you opened the window and looked out towards the---- Mr. JARMAN. This one here. Mr. BALL. The one marked Y on this diagram? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. Is that right? Mr. JARMAN. This one right here. Mr. BALL. That one marked Y. Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. Where is the window to which you went afterwards to look out when you saw the police and other agents searching boxcars? Mr. JARMAN. I went to the second window from the south side of the building on the west. Mr. BALL. Is that the one marked Z? Mr. JARMAN. Yes. Mr. BALL. At that time could you see the stairwell when you stood there at Z? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir; I couldn't. Mr. BALL. Why? Mr. JARMAN. Because there is a row of bins there with books in them. Mr. BALL. They block your view? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And did we conduct an experiment there to see how much you could see from Z? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. I show you a picture, 491. Do you remember standing in line near the stairwell? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. That is you on the end, isn't it? Mr. JARMAN. Right. Mr. BALL. On the end, the farthest from the stairwell? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And we took a picture, is that right? Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Of that area. Does that show the bins? Mr. JARMAN. That shows the bins. Mr. BALL. I am now referring to 492. Mr. JARMAN. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Now was there any part of the stairwell that you could see when you were along this west wall? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Could you see the elevators? Mr. JARMAN. I imagine if I had looked over, but I didn't. Mr. BALL. Do you remember any of the elevators coming up or down as you were standing there at the west window? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Looking toward the railroad track? Mr. JARMAN. No, sir.