Mr. BALL. How were they dressed? Mr. SIMS. I believe one of them pulled his coat off, and I don't know how they were dressed, but one of them pulled his coat off--I know. Mr. BALL. Were they handcuffed? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. They were handcuffed together? Mr. SIMS. Yes; all of them was handcuffed. Mr. BALL. Now, there were four of them altogether? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. In the showup? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What were their names? Mr. SIMS. They were--well, it would be Clark and Perry and Oswald. Mr. BALL. Give their full names, if you will. Mr. SIMS. All right. Mr. BALL. And what their position is with the Dallas Police Department. Mr. SIMS. No. 1 was Bill Perry, W. E. Perry, he was No. 1, with the Dallas Police Department, and No. 2 was Lee Harvey Oswald, and No. 3 was R. L. Clark with the Dallas Police Department, and No. 4 was Don Ables, who is a civilian jail clerk. Mr. BALL. And who selected Don Ables to be in the showup? Mr. SIMS. I don't know who selected him. Mr. BALL. Does he have his office in the jail? Mr. SIMS. Well, yes, sir; the jail office--he works in there. Mr. BALL. Can you give me just a general description of what these fellows look like? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; W. E. Perry, he is 34 years of age, 5'10 1/2" and about 170, I believe and that's a guess, now. He has brown hair, blue eyes, and dark complexion. Richard L. Clark is 31, 5'9 3/4", 170, has blond hair, blue eyes, and ruddy complexion. Now, these weights could be different now--I don't know. Don Ables is 26, 5'9", 165, and brown hair. Mr. BALL. What kind of complexion does Don Ables have? Mr. SIMS. I don't have that here--I believe he's just ruddy complexion, I believe. Mr. BALL. Now, in the showup, where were you, on the stage or in the audience? Mr. SIMS. I was on the stage. Mr. BALL. And did you hear anything that was said from the audience part of the showup? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you hear? Mr. SIMS. Well, someone was asking each one in the showup a few questions. Mr. BALL. Do you know who that was that asked the questions in the first showup? Mr. SIMS. I'm not positive, but I believe it was Detective Leavelle in our office conducted the first showup. Mr. BALL. And what questions did they ask? Mr. SIMS. I couldn't say the exact questions, but as a rule, his age and address and where he went to school and where he was born and just a few questions like that, just to have them say a few words. Mr. BALL. Did Leavelle ask all of the questions? Mr. SIMS. He asked all four of the men in the showup. Mr. BALL. How did Oswald act at this showup; tell me what he did and what he said? Mr. SIMS. Well, he just acted more or less like the other--acted natural. Mr. BALL. Answered the questions? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did he protest any? Mr. SIMS. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Did he say that he had a T-shirt on and no one else had a T-shirt on?