Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen a showup in which officers took part? Mr. PERRY. Physically, down there? Mr. BALL. Yes. Mr. PERRY. Not that I recall, that has been an awful long time ago. I don't recall. Mr. BALL. Now, do you use your--use showups in your business, in the vice squad? Mr. PERRY. I don't think we do; huh-uh, no. Never heard of it done. Mr. BALL. You never have? Who talked to you and asked you to take part in the first showup? Mr. PERRY. Captain Fritz. Mr. BALL. Did he talk to you? Mr. PERRY. No; he talked to somebody else in our bureau. Mr. BALL. And they relayed the order to you? Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you do? Mr. PERRY. We went on up to--Clark and myself went on up to the third floor of the homicide office. Mr. BALL. Was Oswald there? Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Who else was there? Mr. PERRY. Several different people. Captain Fritz, a lot of homicide detectives and Texas Rangers and several other people that I don't know who they were. I gather law enforcement agencies, but it was, the office was---- Mr. BALL. Anything said there? Mr. PERRY. I don't recall. Mr. BALL. Any conversation with Oswald? Mr. PERRY. No, sir. Mr. BALL. And before you went down to the showup, how did you dress? Mr. PERRY. I pulled my coat off and took my tie off and unbuttoned my shirt and put another sports coat on. Mr. BALL. What color? Mr. PERRY. I believe it was a brown sports coat. Mr. BALL. Then you went down to the showup? Mr. PERRY. Went down to the showup. Mr. BALL. Were you handcuffed? Mr. PERRY. Yes. Mr. BALL. To whom? Mr. PERRY. To Oswald. Mr. BALL. Which arm, or hand? Mr. PERRY. My left hand to his right hand. Mr. BALL. What place did you have in the showup? Mr. PERRY. I was No. 1. Mr. BALL. And where was Oswald? Mr. PERRY. Oswald was No. 2, next to me. Mr. BALL. Who was handcuffed to Oswald? Mr. PERRY. Clark was handcuffed. Mr. BALL. That was No. 3. Who was 4? Mr. PERRY. Ables. Mr. BALL. Did you ever know him before? Mr. PERRY. I had seen--had seen him, but I didn't know him personally. Mr. BALL. He is a clerk in the jail? Mr. PERRY. Yes. Mr. BALL. Policeman ask you any questions? Detective ask you any questions? Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; my name and what have you. Mr. BALL. Well, what do you mean, "what have you."? Mr. PERRY. Well, occupation. Mr. BALL. What else? Mr. PERRY. I believe he asked me what kind of car I drove if I'm not mistaken. Mr. BALL. And what answer did you give him? Mr. PERRY. I gave him all fictitious answers. I don't recall what they were, but they weren't---- Mr. BALL. You didn't give him your true name? Mr. PERRY. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Or true address? Mr. PERRY. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Or the car you drove? Mr. PERRY. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Ask you what your occupation was? Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; he did, but I don't recall what I said to him. Mr. BALL. Did you tell him you were a police officer? Mr. PERRY. No, sir. Mr. BALL. Gave some----