Mr. CARROLL. To the aisle from the lobby--you come downstairs into the lower lobby and the aisles lead off the lower lobby, and I come through the lobby and he was sitting rather close, I don't know exactly which row of seats it was, but it was back close to the back of the theatre. Mr. BALL. And how many seats in from the right aisle, as you faced the screen? Mr. CARROLL. It was approximately--close to the center of the second bunch of seats. Mr. BALL. What did you see when you came into the entrance to the aisle? Mr. CARROLL. I saw standing up at the time--Oswald was standing up there at that time. Several of us were converging at the same time upon him. Mr. BALL. Where was McDonald? Mr. CARROLL. He was on Oswald's, let me see, the first time I think I saw Nick was, I believe he was on Oswald's right side. Mr. BALL. Were they struggling? Mr. CARROLL. Everyone was struggling with him--yes, sir. Mr. BALL. I mean, were Oswald and McDonald struggling together? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; and then when I got up close enough, I saw a pistol pointing at me so I reached and grabbed the pistol and jerked the pistol away and stuck it in my belt, and then I grabbed Oswald. Mr. BALL. Who had hold of that pistol at that time? Mr. CARROLL. I don't know, sir. I just saw the pistol pointing at me and I grabbed it and jerked it away from whoever had it and that's all, and by that time then the handcuffs were put on Oswald. Mr. BALL. Who put them on him? Mr. CARROLL. I'm not sure who actually put the handcuffs on--I think it was Ray Hawkins. Mr. BALL. Put them on from behind? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did---- Mr. CARROLL. They were behind him. Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody strike Oswald with his fist? Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; I did not. Mr. BALL. We had one witness testify yesterday that he saw a man with a shotgun strike Oswald in the back with the butt of the gun; did you see that? Mr. CARROLL. No, sir; I didn't see that. Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody strike him? Mr. CARROLL. I didn't see anybody strike him--it's possible that someone did, but I didn't see it because I was busy just trying to get him. Mr. BALL. Did you grab some part of Oswald? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; I grabbed him. Mr. BALL. Where? Mr. CARROLL. It was below his shoulders, I think I grabbed him by his arm, trying to get one arm behind him or something. I mean, it all happened so fast--as far as me sitting down and detailing it--I believe it was his right arm. Mr. BALL. Was Oswald saying anything during this struggle? Mr. CARROLL. Not that you could understand, you know; he was making sounds like normally they will do when you are engaged in some kind of a vigorous scuffle or something like that. Mr. BALL. What happened then after that?