Mr. CARROLL. There was Jerry Hill, Ray Hawkins, McDonald, Hutson, Bentley, Lyons, and myself. Oh, by the way, Lyons was in the car with us also when we came from the theatre to the police department. I don't remember whether he was sitting in the front or back seat, though, but he did come down with us. Lyons had sprained his ankle and Paul Bentley also had sprained his ankle, and shortly after we went into the police personnel office Lyons and Bentley left and went to Parkland to have their legs checked and taken care of. Mr. BALL. Had you looked at the pistol to see if it was loaded before you got to the personnel office? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir; when I gave it to Jerry Hill, he unloaded it. Mr. BALL. He unloaded it there in the car? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And were you able to see that? Mr. CARROLL. Wait just a minute--I know he checked the cylinder and I don't recall whether he actually unloaded it at the time or whether he waited to unload it downtown, but I believe he unloaded it there at the car. Mr. BALL. Anyway, you know it was unloaded in your presence? Mr. CARROLL. Yes; and I saw the bullets. Mr. BALL. It was unloaded in your presence? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And how many bullets were there in the cylinder? Mr. CARROLL. Just--the cylinder was full--six. Mr. BALL. Six bullets? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. Yes; I believe it was full. Mr. BALL. Was McDonald there at that time? Mr. CARROLL. I don't recall whether he was right there at that moment or not. Mr. BALL. Did you examine these bullets? Mr. CARROLL. I looked at them, yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you see anything unusual about any one of them? Mr. CARROLL. Not--just at a glance. No, sir; they just looked like bullets. Mr. BALL. Did you examine them more carefully at a later time? Mr. CARROLL. Someone made mention that one of the caps, you know, had a small indent on it, and I looked at it and I could see what looked to me like a hammer might have fallen on it. Mr. BALL. On the firing pin? Mr. CARROLL. Yes--the firing pin looked like where the firing pin might have fallen on the cap. Mr. BALL. It looked like the firing pin had fallen on the cap? Mr. CARROLL. That's right. Mr. BALL. And did you see that with your naked eye or did you need a glass? Mr. CARROLL. Well, when I looked at it, it looked to me like it was just a real light indent. Mr. BALL. That was without a glass? Mr. CARROLL. Yes. Mr. BALL. Did you look at it as you were there in the personnel department? Mr. CARROLL. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Was McDonald there that day? Mr. CARROLL. I'm sure he was--I don't actually recall him sitting there. He was there most of the time. Mr. BALL. Did you see McDonald make a mark on the gun? Mr. CARROLL. Yes; I saw him make a mark. Mr. BALL. When was this done? Mr. CARROLL. It was up in the personnel police office. Mr. BALL. At this meeting that you were just describing? Mr. CARROLL. Yes; when we were all in there together.