Mr. GRIFFIN. When you got back up on the third floor, were there news media personnel on the third floor? Chief BATCHELOR. There were some up there. Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it, it was not what you consider a crowded condition. Chief BATCHELOR. No. Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there television cameras still there? Chief BATCHELOR. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. When you arrived at 8 o'clock in the morning, were there TV cameras up there? Chief BATCHELOR. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. Were the TV cameras manned at 8 o'clock in the morning? Chief BATCHELOR. Yes; the best I remember, they were. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what TV stations had cameras up there at that time? Chief BATCHELOR. It was KRLD and WFAA, if I remember right. And I could be mistaken about the WFAA. It could have been WBAP. Mr. GRIFFIN. How do you happen to remember KRLD? Chief BATCHELOR. They were the first ones in there and they had their truck parked outside. And also, I am pretty sure it was WFAA, because WFAA had a truck parked on the Harwood Street side. Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to tell at 8 o'clock in the morning if they were shooting footage? Chief BATCHELOR. I couldn't tell. All the time that I remember, they had these little viewers in the back of the thing and you could see through them and see what was going on through them, look through the camera. Whether they were shooting footage, there wasn't anything to shoot that morning. It was pretty quiet. Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, the second trip when you came back upstairs after your first trip downstairs, where did you go? Chief BATCHELOR. After the first trip, I came back up to again get in touch with Mr. Stevenson and tell him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Fleming? Chief BATCHELOR. Fleming, I mean, and tell him what the height of that thing was. Then he told me, well, I will just send both trucks down there and you can take the one you want. Mr. GRIFFIN. This second phone call, was Mr. Fleming at home? Chief BATCHELOR. Yes, sir. Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know whether Fleming had been contacted by anyone in your office or Decker's office or anybody else prior to your first phone call to him? Chief BATCHELOR. I would think not. He couldn't, because this was his first knowledge of it. Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you tell us what else you said to him? What else this conversation involved? Chief BATCHELOR. I don't recall saying anything other than expressing our appreciation for his help. And he said he would send both of the trucks down. I told him how to bring the trucks. I told him to bring them east on Harwood--I mean on Commerce Street, and that we would back it down the ramp so that we would be leaving the ramp in the right direction when they pulled out. Mr. GRIFFIN. Up to the time that you had this second conversation with Fleming, had you discussed with anybody the route by which you would take Oswald to the county jail?